Responding to anti-Muslim prejudices

[Jim]

I am a fierce critic of Islaam, no doubt. In large measure because I sympathise with Muslims, although I know better than to expect the random Muslims to support me. Far as they are likely to realize, I am a kafir spreading "hatred". That is very far from reality, but I have to accept that they are indoctrinated to protect the reputation of the Qur'an and of Islaam over their own well-being.

Until and unless you understand and accept that, you will have a very hard time attempting to understand my goals and motivations that relate to Islaam and Muslims.

I think that I understand and accept that. I would like very much to discuss the issues with you that you think need to be addressed. Otherwise, I'll make my own list and start a discussion about it. Then maybe you can add to it whatever you think is missing.

 

[Vinayaka]

Sri Lanka Muslims Had Warned Officials About Group Behind ...
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?...
Apr 22, 2019 · For members of Sri Lanka’s Muslim community, it’s no surprise that local jihadist group National Thowheed Jamath is being blamed for deadly bombings that killed nearly 300 people on Easter Sunday.
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
“Targeting the non-Muslim community is something they encourage -- they say you have to kill them in the name of religion,” Ahamed said in a phone interview from Colombo on Monday. “I personally have gone and handed over all the documents three years ago, giving names and details of all these people. They have sat on it. That’s the tragedy.”

Who needs anybody to spread anti-Muslim propaganda when groups like this do an excellent job themselves? What better way to get everyone to hate Muslims than to claim you're a Muslim and go on a suicide bombing mission?

 

[LuisDantas]

Your arrogance is over the top and a huge turn off. Who do you think you are?

I am Luis Dantas. Who did you expect me to be?


More to the point, who would I have to be to earn the right to point out the flaws and dangers of Islaam? Or are you calling me "arrogant" for some other reason?

 

[sooda]

Who needs anybody to spread anti-Muslim propaganda when groups like this do an excellent job themselves? What better wat to get everyone to hate Muslims that to claim you're a Muslim and go on a suicide bombing mission?

National Thowheed Jamath is the name of the suspected bombers.

 

[LuisDantas]

Would this be a good place for that?
The Qur'an: Intentions vs. Effects

I'm not sure that you were genuinely trying to be helpful, but I'm not sure that you weren't. Your intentions towards me have always looked friendly to me. Can you at least list the issues with Islam that you think need to be addressed to be effective in reducing anti-Muslim prejudices and counteracting their effects; or point me to some honest and responsible discussion of those issues?

I sure can. But unfortunately, the bottom line is indeed that in order to save Islaam we have to enable the demise of Islaam. Hopefully a peaceful demise, but the odds are very much against that.

Not of Muslims, mind you. The people are far more deserving of respect and protection than the doctrine could ever conceivably be.

 

[Jim]

I sure can. But unfortunately, the bottom line is indeed that in order to save Islaam we have to enable the demise of Islaam. Hopefully a peaceful demise, but the odds are very much against that.

Not of Muslims, mind you. The people are far more deserving of respect and protection than the doctrine could ever conceivably be.

I've started studying the thread The Qur'an: Intentions vs. Effects. After that I'll discuss the issues with Islam that I see being raised there.

 

[Stanyon]

The Nazis demonized the Jews. The Israelis demonize the Palestinians.

Check out these television shows for children, among other things they praise martyrdom:

 

[sooda]

Check out these television shows for children, among other things they praise martyrdom:

Do you speak Arabic? MEMRI can't be trusted. They have spent the last 2 decades justifying killing and land theft to the world.

 

[Jim]

Check out these television shows for children, among other things they praise martyrdom:[/MEDIA]

Thank you for helping to point out some issues with Islam that I might want to address.

Do you have any objections to diversifying people's images of Muslims, being a friend to some Muslims, or exposing fallacies in anti-Muslim propaganda?

 

[LuisDantas]

The Jews control certain well known and influential international mass media and the White house decisions relating to Islamic World, from here fabrications to delude the world stem. Invasion of Iraq was legalized as a campaign to destroy weapons of mass destruction.

If only those were the real causes of the troubles with Islaam!

Surely you know of the Battle of the Camel? Of the 1979 crisis in Saudi Arabia? Of the lives of Hasan and Husayn?

 

[Jim]

Who needs anybody to spread anti-Muslim propaganda when groups like this do an excellent job themselves? What better wat to get everyone to hate Muslims that to claim you're a Muslim and go on a suicide bombing mission?

I'm curious. Regardless of whether or not anyone needs anyone to spread anti-Muslim propaganda, do you think that there is such a thing as false, anti-Muslim propaganda?

 

[Jim]

Do you belong to Sabeel?

No.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm curious. Regardless of whether or not anyone needs anyone to spread anti-Muslim propaganda, do you think that there is such a thing as false, anti-Muslim propaganda?

Personally, I definitely believe there is, just as there is anti-Hindu, anti-Christian, anti-Baha'i propaganda. But we have to be intelligent and discerning to figure out which is legitimate truth, and which is propaganda. Some people will say it's anti for almost anything. I've been accused of being anti-Christian, anti-Baha'i and anti-Islam myself on more than one occasion. All you have to do, for some people to make that accusation is to say you don't believe the same thing as they do. That's the nature of fundamentalism ... as George W said, 'You is either for us, or agin us."

 

[Jim]

But we have to be intelligent and discerning to figure out which is legitimate truth, and which is propaganda.

Do you think that anyone needs to know which is truth, and which is propaganda, to decide if they want to help diversify people's images of Muslims, or be a friend to Muslims?

I'll rephrase what I said about exposing fallacies. Do you have any objection to people pointing out some fallacies in some sweeping, unqualified, alarm-inducing and anger-inducing statements that are being circulated about Muslims?

 

[Stanyon]

Do you have any objections to diversifying people's images of Muslims, being a friend to some Muslims, or exposing fallacies in anti-Muslim propaganda?

No, I've worked with a number of them and have lived next door to a Muslim for years, I don't see them as any better or any worse than anyone else.

One memorable Muslim I worked with was a guy from Jordan, good sense of humour, guy used to use vacation to visit back home, he said most people hated the U.S. there. I must say arranged marriage worked out pretty well for him, upper thirties with a belly, hairy, ugly, but his wife was about 19 and absolutely beautiful. We used to joke around with him asking him when he was going to bring her over after which he would typically reply "F*** you guys" he was in the process of bringing her over then 9/11 happened and travel was restricted, I felt bad for him but what can you do? Moved on to another job about a year later.

 

[Jim]

I've mentioned three possible ways that I see of helping to free people from anti-Muslim prejudices, and helping to counteract the adverse effects of those prejudices: diversifying people's images of Muslims, being a friend to some Muslims, and pointing out some fallacies in some alarm-inducing and anger-inducing allegations and insinuations against Muslims. Does anyone have any other ideas about how to help free people from anti-Muslim prejudices, and help counteract the adverse effects of those prejudices? I've thought of some places to look for answers, and if get any other ideas from that, I'll post them.

 

[dybmh]

Hi Jim, I think this is the biggest hurdle standing between rational productive dialogue in response to anti-Islam propaganda:

Mental filtering - The brain's tendency to filter information that does not conform to already-held beliefs.

hyperlink >>> wikipedia.org - Cognitive distortion

To be fair; I am guilty of this myself.

 

[icehorse]

I'm curious. Regardless of whether or not anyone needs anyone to spread anti-Muslim propaganda, do you think that there is such a thing as false, anti-Muslim propaganda?

As I read this thread there is a recurring idea that I think should be addressed. While I understand that humans tend to identify with what they believe, I think it's important do distinguish between ideas and not-ideas. So the phrase "anti-Muslim" seems dangerously imprecise to me. Many people associate Muslims with Arabs. And some people are prejudiced against Arabs and so sometimes being an Arab and being a Muslim get conflated. Then are are people like Luis and I who think that many of the IDEAS enshrined in Islam are bad ideas. I think it's CRUCIAL to distinguish between criticism of any set of ideas (such as Islam), and prejudice towards people based on things they cannot change (like being an Arab). So to me, prejudice towards an ethnicity or race is a bad behavior, but criticism of ideas - any ideas - should be viewed as healthy.

With all of that said, what do you mean when you mention "anti-Muslim"?

 

[Vinayaka]

Do you think that anyone needs to know which is truth, and which is propaganda, to decide if they want to help diversify people's images of Muslims, or be a friend to Muslims?

I'll rephrase what I said about exposing fallacies. Do you have any objection to people pointing out some fallacies in some sweeping, unqualified, alarm-inducing and anger-inducing statements that are being circulated about Muslims?

I don't think it's fair or rational to make sweeping generalisations about anyone, not just Muslims. It's intellectual laziness, for starters. People are individuals for the most part, with the exception perhaps, of those hooked on the same dogma. Sometimes it feels like it's the same person with 100 voices.

I've actually never encountered much anti-Muslim propaganda.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Thank you for pointing out some issues that people have with Islam.

Do you have any objections to diversifying people's images of Muslims, being a friend to some Muslims, or exposing fallacies in anti-Muslim propaganda?

I think one of the purposes of RF's space is to make that possible and to provide a space to dispel rumors. Unlike, say, facebook we actually can help do that; because we provide a space where someone suspected of evil can appear and tell what they think in a mixed environment without being attacked. That is, any place not marked debate on RF is perfect for it. Moderators will have their back. Debate comprise less than 20% of the forum areas. The forum is meant to be mainly a no debate entity, particularly so that we can have exactly the kind of discussions you are talking about. All debate is confined for that reason, specifically for the reason you state.