• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Respectful question about initiation

Orbit

I'm a planet
Hi all-
I'm a member of RF who also happens to be a sociologist, and last year I did some interviews with members of a Wiccan coven. One of the issues that came up during the interviews was the use of the male/female sex act as an element of being initiated into being a High Priest/Priestess. Some of the members of the group were conflicted about it.

I had a hard time finding actual data on how common this is, and whether it causes tensions within covens or within Wicca, so I ask you:

1. How common is initiatory sex?
2. Is there controversy within the Wiccan community about its use?
3. How does it work if the person seeking initiation is gay?

If you feel more comfortable answering by PM, by all means do. I appreciate any insights you can give.
Thanks
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Hi all-
I'm a member of RF who also happens to be a sociologist, and last year I did some interviews with members of a Wiccan coven. One of the issues that came up during the interviews was the use of the male/female sex act as an element of being initiated into being a High Priest/Priestess. Some of the members of the group were conflicted about it.

I had a hard time finding actual data on how common this is, and whether it causes tensions within covens or within Wicca, so I ask you:

1. How common is initiatory sex?
2. Is there controversy within the Wiccan community about its use?
3. How does it work if the person seeking initiation is gay?

If you feel more comfortable answering by PM, by all means do. I appreciate any insights you can give.
Thanks

Don't know how many Wiccans are here, but I know something of the subject.

1. It's not. Generally in most covens an initiate is naked only for that particular rite (if at all, ymmv) and the "sex act" isn't a sex act. It's a five fold kiss. Sky clad isn't very popular mostly because everyone north of the Mason-Dixon line will freeze their bits. Purists kiss the regions, but generally now I would think it's "above the regions" if done at all... People are aware of STDs and it is now a concern. Generally, if you are male you are kissed by a high priestess; women are kissed by the high priest. In Diana-flavored Wicca, all acts are performed with other women regardless of their preferences -- there is a higher percentage of lesbians in this group for obvious reasons. Strangely enough, in Diana traditions you have transgender women sometimes as well -- it used to be women only. In times of extreme trouble both the High Priest and Priestess may perform what is known as a Great Rite. It was all the rage in the 1960s, but not very common at all now. It wasn't "sex" for "sex" it was the both of them invoking God/dess and performing a ritual of blessing basically for the group. I'm not personally aware of any of this going on anymore, but it may happen -- at least it fits the post 60s revival.

2. There isn't. Generally, the five-fold kiss is considered a blessing but it is not mandatory. It is also largely only used in Gardnerian and Alexandrian groups. There are plenty of pagans that don't get involved with it. Covens decide what parts of the package they want to implement. Most covens are still launched off the old-fashioned way... Two folks meet at some witchy event and viola they start finding others... :)

3. It is not a consideration. Coven members are generally equals. High Priest(ess) is really just an administrative/officiating title. Thus, a suitable gay or lesbian stunt kisser can substitute if required. Again, I still think this is completely optional and most groups aren't doing it anymore. The initiation is with the coven not the High Priest/ess. :)

Most of this comes from years of having Wiccan friends and years of reading, but for some people (especially the younger kids) it's the Sabbats that are the rage. Think burning man with ecstatic states and excessive sex. It generally is balls out no rules party, and some of them enjoy orgies and public nudity. :p Many of these types of events will involve many many covens together... So, basically anything goes.
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
I think what is being referenced is the "Great Rite". This rite is mostly symbolic of the joining of the God and Goddess and is usually performed using tools. An athame and a chalice. Dipping the dagger into the cup while reciting the words to the ritual are usually what is used. The "Great Rite" being literal is extremely rare to my knowledge.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
For all of these, you'd be better off doing a study. Nobody can say how "common" something is without data. That said...

1. How common is initiatory sex?

From what I've seen of other demographic surveys (such as those done by Helen Berger), the strong majority (greater than 75%) of Wiccans are solitary practitioners who have never been in a coven and have thus never undergone any sort of coven-based initiation. As such, at most ~25% would be involved in the possibility of this sort of initiation, and that's being extremely generous, I think. And, as Draka said, it's far more likely you'd find symbolic rites, not literal ones.

2. Is there controversy within the Wiccan community about its use?

When is there not a controversy within a religious community about the proper way to do something? But if you mean to ask "this is a hot-button political issue," I doubt it. Again, because the strong majority of Wiccans are solitary and non-coven based, so I wager that they mostly do not care about the issue at all.

3. How does it work if the person seeking initiation is gay?

You'd have to ask the traditions that require it, if any of them actually do (in the non-symbolic sense).
 
Top