Respect toward the monastics.

[JJ50]

And this is what can be concluded when one makes the exceptions to the rule the rule itself. Why focus only on the immorality that the Church does not teach is morally acceptable? Such blanket stereotyping, even within itself, is unethical as responsible parents teach their children not to stereotype others.
BTW, do you think "agnostics" are really any different in the long run?

Of course there are paedophiles in all walks of life whether people are religious or not, but the Catholic church seems to take the lead in this area.

 

[metis]

Of course there are paedophiles in all walks of life whether people are religious or not, but the Catholic church seems to take the lead in this area.

Admittedly so, but the good news is that rate has sharply dropped off.

I don't make excuses for it and the Church nationally and internationally has admitted that it dropped the ball on trying to stop this but has made significant changes. In the States, if a bishop today ignores or tries to cover up even an allegation, he'll be defrocked and reported to the civil authorities.

 

[Brickjectivity]

When it comes to respecting within religions/spiritual paths I understand that for those who have gone forth and become a monk or a nun, the laypeople would be respectful to the monastics, because the path of monastic life is not an easy one. And yes the monastic people do study the scriptures all the time and will by this gain deeper wisdom of how to live a righteous life.

But there may be the other way around too, that as a monk or nun they would also understand that being respectful toward the laypeople is a part of being a monk or nun.
To be a teacher (i speak of dhamma teacher here) take time to be "good enough" to give truthful teaching to the laypeople. and in my understanding (can be wrong of course) there will be different answers given to different people because of the wisdom level they are on, they may not understand the deeper teachings.

To get into an argument with a monastic is unwise in my experience, and i will from now refrain from direct discussion with monastics, but yes i will ask questions still.
And yes it is allowed to disagree with the monk or nun, but it would be good for all that it was done in a respectful way

I think it has value but that it should not create a 1st and 2nd class just to become monastic. That must be over-rating it. There isn't so much hardship in not having sex or in not dealing with other people. Its simply a different way to live. Its actually easier not dealing with other people. Its easier not having to worry about sex. Now someone who takes care of people that nobody likes and despite not needing to does the jobs that nobody wants -- that is someone I can respect as upper class. That is difficult. Who is that person? I don't know.

 

[David T]

When it comes to respecting within religions/spiritual paths I understand that for those who have gone forth and become a monk or a nun, the laypeople would be respectful to the monastics, because the path of monastic life is not an easy one. And yes the monastic people do study the scriptures all the time and will by this gain deeper wisdom of how to live a righteous life.

But there may be the other way around too, that as a monk or nun they would also understand that being respectful toward the laypeople is a part of being a monk or nun.
To be a teacher (i speak of dhamma teacher here) take time to be "good enough" to give truthful teaching to the laypeople. and in my understanding (can be wrong of course) there will be different answers given to different people because of the wisdom level they are on, they may not understand the deeper teachings.

To get into an argument with a monastic is unwise in my experience, and i will from now refrain from direct discussion with monastics, but yes i will ask questions still.
And yes it is allowed to disagree with the monk or nun, but it would be good for all that it was done in a respectful way

Yes. Not that they are perfect but generally they understand things a bit better. Although sometimes monastic settings is really hyper sensitives, being hyper sensitive to
everyone. A bit like overly sensitive neurotically , Thomas Merton addresses some of this in his writings. So yes respect but perfect they are not. Which is fine none are!...

 

[David T]

I would say that expecting priests and nuns to be celibate, which is unnatural, could encourage that sort of behaviour, even though no way does it excuse it.

Monks and the monastics. ... A different thing than a priest.

 

[JJ50]

Monks and the monastics. ... A different thing than a priest.

They are both expected to be celibate, which isn't natural if it is forced on them.

 

[crossfire]

Death is coming for us all. There is no escape. But the civilized human perspective is to let death run its course, not manage or engineer it for others.

People get sick. They get depressed or discouraged. To encourage or offer a man made death conflicts with the sanctity of human life, and opens up death by decree, or death for expediency, or eventually, death for cultural cleansing. It has happened too many times, in human history, to give the carte blanche power of death to fickle, fallible human beings.

Death may not be the end. There may be a soul, that continues in another dimension or expression.

As for me, i look forward to my own death. I have for years. The prospect grips and excites me. But i am content leaving the gruesome details in the Hands of Providence.

I hope to die peacefully in my sleep.. like my Grandfather. ..not screaming in terror like his passengers...




.ok, ok.. sorry. I couldn't resist that!

Dhammapada 1:5-6

5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.

6. There are those who do not realize that one day we all must die. But those who do realize this settle their quarrels.​

 

[crossfire]

Vows are not for me. I try to break the 5th precept against alcohol at least once every three months by having a little bit of kahlua in my coffee. This helps me to not allow myself to get tripped up by the little things, and to keep focused on the more important things.

Just because vows do not suit me, I have respect for those who take up vows if it suits them along their path. We are all different, each with their own unique set of psychological hang-ups that will need a cure tailored to them. There are said to be 88,000 (innumerable) dhamma doors by which to enter into the dhamma. If it works, causes no harm, does not spread greed, hatred or delusion, and leads to awakening, then why scorn it? (Isn't scorning a door that works the very seed of the poisons of greed hatred and delusion?)

Of course, your mileage may vary.

 

[David T]

They are both expected to be celibate, which isn't natural if it is forced on them.

Sorry you seem obviously confused what a monk is even. Priests are not monks dont be so confused.

 

[ajay0]

When it comes to respecting within religions/spiritual paths I understand that for those who have gone forth and become a monk or a nun, the laypeople would be respectful to the monastics, because the path of monastic life is not an easy one. And yes the monastic people do study the scriptures all the time and will by this gain deeper wisdom of how to live a righteous life.

I respect the monks and nuns because of the austerities and self-denial they subject themselves to. In an increasingly materialistic world, it is getting harder for them to interact with society.

Some ignoramuses even talks crudely about sex with them and other worldly issues without any sense of etiquette, delicacy or tact in them due to poor breeding and culture.

There is a good probability that the genuine monk/nun will be an extinct species in the near future.

However, monks and nuns can be a source of merit and auspiciousness for the respectful laymen.

'If you're respectful by habit, constantly honoring the worthy, four things increase: long life, beauty, happiness, strength.' ~ Buddha

 

[Vinayaka]

They are both expected to be celibate, which isn't natural if it is forced on them.

It's self imposed, a vow, not forced on anyone.

 

[JJ50]

It's self imposed, a vow, not forced on anyone.

A vow some of the priests don't keep! Besides which, they will take married priests from the Anglican church who convert, so obviously celibacy isn't essential.

 

[Vinayaka]

A vow some of the priests don't keep!

Indeed. But the true Catholic monastic lives somewhat apart from the world ... Trappist monks, Benedictine monks. Priests are a separate lot than monks. Celibates (supposedly) living in and amongst the world.

I'm actually not at all familiar with Christian monks and their vows, or lifestyle. I'm more familiar with Hindu or even Buddhist monks. In Hinduism monks are monks, and not priests. Temple priests, in order to be chief priests HAVE to be married. Young unmarried men can only be assistants.

 

[metis]

I know a monk isn't a priest, but they all come out of the same sink hole the catholic faith.

It's unfortunate that you use stereotypical religious bigotry at a religious website. And I suppose you believe that "agnostics" are just so absolutely pure that you can condemn an entire Christian denomination of over 1 billion people worldwide.

 

[metis]

Indeed. But the true Catholic monastic lives somewhat apart from the world ... Trappist monks, Benedictine monks. Priests are a separate lot than monks. Celibates (supposedly) living in and amongst the world.

I'm actually not at all familiar with Christian monks and their vows, or lifestyle

Most of these are teaching and/or charitable orders that only live separately but then go out into the communities to do their work. They put high emphasis on living a simple lifestyle.

Many of these orders take vows of poverty, plus they put a high value on education. The vast majority of Jesuits here in the States, for example, have at least one ph.d., plus they also must take classes outside of theology. One of them is a friend of mine that has two ph.d.'s, one in psychology and the other in theology.

 

[metis]

It's self imposed, a vow, not forced on anyone.

Ditto with Catholic monks as they can leave anytime they want. One priest at our church was a Trappist monk from Northern Ireland but left that order to become a parish priest here in the States, but he left our church in order to be priest at another Catholic church with an attached school because of his educational background.

 

[David T]

I know a monk isn't a priest, but they all come out of the same sink hole the catholic faith.

I could say that about all of us. Hell you are human and so was hitler therefore.....i would say the observation is correct the therefore is wrong.

Church like any human endevor can fall into normalacy like an insane person slowly going from functional insanity to dysfunctional insanity. We see the dysfunctionalism clearly when it occurs, we do not see it when it appears functional, like a mask, yet its there, and that is where the problem lays.

 

[Vinayaka]

Most of these are teaching and/or charitable orders that only live separately but then go out into the communities to do their work. They put high emphasis on living a simple lifestyle.

Many of these orders take vows of poverty, plus they put a high value on education. The vast majority of Jesuits here in the States, for example, have at least one ph.d., plus they also must take classes outside of theology. One of them is a friend of mine that has two ph.d.'s, one in psychology and the other in theology.

I think monks of all orders would find some common ground. It's not something many folks go into these days, but the monks I've encountered are some of the wisest humans I've ever been around. Quite austere too. Humility is most likely a vow for all monks in all faiths that enable monasticism. In Hinduism, we also have the wandering monk, alone in the world, not in a monastery at all.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I find monasticism to be misguided, unhealthy in many cases and don't agree with it, but I can respect a person as a human being.

 

[metis]

I think monks of all orders would find some common ground. It's not something many folks go into these days, but the monks I've encountered are some of the wisest humans I've ever been around. Quite austere too. Humility is most likely a vow for all monks in all faiths that enable monasticism. In Hinduism, we also have the wandering monk, alone in the world, not in a monastery at all.

I totally agree. And, as a matter of fact, the Catholic monk Thomas Merton said his collaboration with Buddhist monks in s.e. Asia help him immensely with his role as a monk within Catholicism. Ever read "Seven Story Mountain" by chance?