Requirements for Salvation

[Treasure Hunter]

Even though it is usually vague and on the fringe of our conscious awareness, we all have an inherent desire for salvation. Bringing this into awareness is the first step. The next step is to identify how to attain salvation.

Before anyone can work toward their salvation, they must be able to get to the starting line. It's important to first recognize that our preconceived notions and the guidance that appeals to us initially will be incorrect. The only guidance that is truthful in this area is intuitive, and it's my view that we all have, from the beginning, an intuitive sense that an opportunity for salvation is available to everyone no matter their circumstances.

Let's take an extreme example of this idea. If there is someone who lives in complete isolation except for access to basic survival needs, this person should have an opportunity for salvation. I'd put forth that this is the starting point, a necessary assumption, and if someone does not believe this, then they are off-track.

This means that if someone thinks any of the following are requirements for salvation, then they are not on the right path:
-Accepting someone as their Lord and savior
-Guidance from scripture
-Access to privileged information such as specific practices or techniques
-Participation in certain rituals or ceremonies
-Knowledge of a God of any kind
-Worship of any kind

Our isolated person would not know that they are required to do any of those things. What I am saying is that we all have access to an intuitive guidance and this is the ONLY method to find our way. Philosophically, believing that certain people are favored with guidance from God or that some are pre-destined for salvation is valid. However, our intuitive guide will occasionally grab our attention to reconsider these ideas. We have to be courageous enough and faithful enough to acknowledge it.

If a requirement for salvation is not available to our isolated person, then it is not true and should be rejected. Metaphorically speaking, we need to tie our hands behind our backs and corner ourselves, and only then do we have the opportunity to find our intuitive guide that can lead us toward truth.

 

[Sundance]

As a Christian, I absolutely disagree on the premise that you have not offered an answer to the most fundamental question concerning salvation: from what would one need salvation?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

As a Christian, I absolutely disagree on the premise that you have not offered an answer to the most fundamental question concerning salvation: from what would one need salvation?

I didn't want to focus too specifically on what salvation means because that gets answered gradually along the way. However, as I mentioned, our inherent desire for salvation is universal and is brought to our awareness through profound inspiration or "grace" (positive motivator) and suffering (negative motivator). Pain and pleasure are universal; therefore, our desire for salvation is universal.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I feel the answer to salvation is a simple one. Be good. Be as good as you can. Do more good than bad in your life and the good energy that surrounds you will let you into other heavenly realms and therefore you have achieved salvation. I don't think belief in a specific god or following a specific set of rules is required. All you really have to do is be good.

 

[Scott C.]

Even though it is usually vague and on the fringe of our conscious awareness, we all have an inherent desire for salvation. Bringing this into awareness is the first step. The next step is to identify how to attain salvation.

Before anyone can work toward their salvation, they must be able to get to the starting line. It's important to first recognize that our preconceived notions and the guidance that appeals to us initially will be incorrect. The only guidance that is truthful in this area is intuitive, and it's my view that we all have, from the beginning, an intuitive sense that an opportunity for salvation is available to everyone no matter their circumstances.

Let's take an extreme example of this idea. If there is someone who lives in complete isolation except for access to basic survival needs, this person should have an opportunity for salvation. I'd put forth that this is the starting point, a necessary assumption, and if someone does not believe this, then they are off-track.

This means that if someone thinks any of the following are requirements for salvation, then they are not on the right path:
-Accepting someone as their Lord and savior
-Guidance from scripture
-Access to privileged information such as specific practices or techniques
-Participation in certain rituals or ceremonies
-Knowledge of a God of any kind
-Worship of any kind

Our isolated person would not know that they are required to do any of those things. What I am saying is that we all have access to an intuitive guidance and this is the ONLY method to find our way. Philosophically, believing that certain people are favored with guidance from God or that some are pre-destined for salvation is valid. However, our intuitive guide will occasionally grab our attention to reconsider these ideas. We have to be courageous enough and faithful enough to acknowledge it.

If a requirement for salvation is not available to our isolated person, then it is not true and should be rejected. Metaphorically speaking, we need to tie our hands behind our backs and corner ourselves, and only then do we have the opportunity to find our intuitive guide that can lead us toward truth.

I agree with you that everyone must have access to whatever is required for salvation, including the isolated person. But, over time, more access may be given. That which is sufficient in isolation is not sufficient as more becomes available, be it in this life or the next.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

I feel the answer to salvation is a simple one. Be good. Be as good as you can. Do more good than bad in your life and the good energy that surrounds you will let you into other heavenly realms and therefore you have achieved salvation.

This idea assumes a belief in a God, no? When you bring in the afterlife, you are assuming God's existence in my view. I haven't defined salvation, but when I said that a belief in God is not a requirement, I was implying that belief in an afterlife is not a requirement. If you disagree, then don't you disagree that the person in isolation has an opportunity for salvation?

 

[Twilight Hue]

I think people sometimes get confused over self preservation, and a penchant for needing salvation from something.

 

[George-ananda]

Even though it is usually vague and on the fringe of our conscious awareness, we all have an inherent desire for salvation. Bringing this into awareness is the first step. The next step is to identify how to attain salvation.

So then, how does one attain this salvation (as opposed to just how it is not attained)?

 

[Theweirdtophat]

This idea assumes a belief in a God, no? When you bring in the afterlife, you are assuming God's existence in my view. I haven't defined salvation, but when I said that a belief in God is not a requirement, I was implying that belief in an afterlife is not a requirement. If you disagree, then don't you disagree that the person in isolation has an opportunity for salvation?

Everyone can achieve salvation. It is not limited. Believe in gods or don't, you can still achieve salvation. Lots of Buddhists and Jains don't worship a god and really it wouldn't matter if you were an atheist. I already know there's an afterlife on the other side and if I was an atheist, it wouldn't change that. There are other realms to visit, other beings out there that would be considered gods. But believing in them is not necessary.

 

[buddhist]

Even though it is usually vague and on the fringe of our conscious awareness, we all have an inherent desire for salvation. Bringing this into awareness is the first step. The next step is to identify how to attain salvation.

Before anyone can work toward their salvation, they must be able to get to the starting line. It's important to first recognize that our preconceived notions and the guidance that appeals to us initially will be incorrect. The only guidance that is truthful in this area is intuitive, and it's my view that we all have, from the beginning, an intuitive sense that an opportunity for salvation is available to everyone no matter their circumstances.

Let's take an extreme example of this idea. If there is someone who lives in complete isolation except for access to basic survival needs, this person should have an opportunity for salvation. I'd put forth that this is the starting point, a necessary assumption, and if someone does not believe this, then they are off-track.

This means that if someone thinks any of the following are requirements for salvation, then they are not on the right path:
-Accepting someone as their Lord and savior
-Guidance from scripture
-Access to privileged information such as specific practices or techniques
-Participation in certain rituals or ceremonies
-Knowledge of a God of any kind
-Worship of any kind

Our isolated person would not know that they are required to do any of those things. What I am saying is that we all have access to an intuitive guidance and this is the ONLY method to find our way. Philosophically, believing that certain people are favored with guidance from God or that some are pre-destined for salvation is valid. However, our intuitive guide will occasionally grab our attention to reconsider these ideas. We have to be courageous enough and faithful enough to acknowledge it.

If a requirement for salvation is not available to our isolated person, then it is not true and should be rejected. Metaphorically speaking, we need to tie our hands behind our backs and corner ourselves, and only then do we have the opportunity to find our intuitive guide that can lead us toward truth.

I posted a similar post recently about this, and I agree with you. "Salvation", whatever that might entail, must be open and equally available to everyone across time and space, and not restricted to specific intermediaries, people groups, geographical concerns, or time.

 

[Deidre]

I think salvation begins with acceptance...for me, acceptance of Christ's love and an acceptance of self.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Even though it is usually vague and on the fringe of our conscious awareness, we all have an inherent desire for salvation. Bringing this into awareness is the first step. The next step is to identify how to attain salvation.

Before anyone can work toward their salvation, they must be able to get to the starting line. It's important to first recognize that our preconceived notions and the guidance that appeals to us initially will be incorrect. The only guidance that is truthful in this area is intuitive, and it's my view that we all have, from the beginning, an intuitive sense that an opportunity for salvation is available to everyone no matter their circumstances.

Let's take an extreme example of this idea. If there is someone who lives in complete isolation except for access to basic survival needs, this person should have an opportunity for salvation. I'd put forth that this is the starting point, a necessary assumption, and if someone does not believe this, then they are off-track.

This means that if someone thinks any of the following are requirements for salvation, then they are not on the right path:
-Accepting someone as their Lord and savior
-Guidance from scripture
-Access to privileged information such as specific practices or techniques
-Participation in certain rituals or ceremonies
-Knowledge of a God of any kind
-Worship of any kind

Our isolated person would not know that they are required to do any of those things. What I am saying is that we all have access to an intuitive guidance and this is the ONLY method to find our way. Philosophically, believing that certain people are favored with guidance from God or that some are pre-destined for salvation is valid. However, our intuitive guide will occasionally grab our attention to reconsider these ideas. We have to be courageous enough and faithful enough to acknowledge it.

If a requirement for salvation is not available to our isolated person, then it is not true and should be rejected. Metaphorically speaking, we need to tie our hands behind our backs and corner ourselves, and only then do we have the opportunity to find our intuitive guide that can lead us toward truth.

If you have seen Cast Away with Tom Hanks, thats a good movie of reference.

Tom was abanded alone on a lifeless island. All he had at first where the passager objects left in the ocean from the plain crash. He survived on not just the basics as the OP is saying but on other things that people label supernatural.

He had a pocket watch with his fiance in it. He'd talk to her (as many talk with ancestral spirits or Jesus even). She supported him to survival. He found a valley ball floating and created a smily face talking to it as if it were feal. He cried when he thought he lossed it.

Our need for salvation (or free from suffering?) can be universal. But needing a psychological reliever such as god, zues, to cow or spirit is relevant and universal too.

In this context, "god" however defined is needed for universal salvation. As explained with the valley ball and fiance.

The need for living on is universal. Our bodies are programed to survive even at our last breathe. Why should we not think psychological survival is needed too. Many give up thinking physical death is the end when psychologically and everywhere else all things go in a cycle.

When Tom talked to his fiance he didnt throw her to the ground. He sat her comfortable in between rocks making sure she didnt fall. He talked to her in a way he wouldnt a stranger. Basically, he put her above anyone else on that tiny little island. Thats worship. Its universal. We have values abstract or concrete and we prioritize them. How we interact and how it plays a role in our lives define whether its worship or just a deed.

Tom had a routine. I wont go through the whole thing but at the end he always talked to his fiance. It was a ritual and it meant something to him. When he finally caught his first fish he celebrated. When one dead pilot washed on the island he had a moment of silence (not a religious movie).

People have ways to award themselves for the things they do. If that one person in the OP was on an island Im sure hed do the same.

The only thing that I see that isnt universal is guidence from scripture. While we may talk to an unknown other in situations like Tom, more than likely we wont find a survival manual hidden under a palm tree.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

So then, how does one attain this salvation (as opposed to just how it is not attained)?

Let's say you are in your house, you are missing something really valuable, and it's located in the basement which you don't even know exists at this moment. On the first floor where you are, there are countless different advisors with very convincing ideas about where this item is located, but all these ideas keep you on the first floor away from the basement. When you eventually dismiss the advice of one advisor, another instantly grabs your attention.

If I approach you and tell you to go look for it in the basement, then I am outnumbered by every other advisor that tells you with full conviction that it's not. By telling you not to listen to any advisors, you have a chance to consider every possibility and you may perhaps find the basement on your own.

 

[Andrew Odinson]

Well first you need to ask if a person needs salvation and would then have to prove the need for said salvation. If you hold a belief that doesn't require or accept salvation; then there is no need for this question. Salvation is usually a Christian term which exists due to the belief that the human form is flawed in some way and needs divine intervention. If you don't believe in the concept of a flawed human needing saving, then this is just a superficial argument that has no bearing. I would personally argue that there is no need for salvation and when salvation is mentioned in a religious context it is a method of controlling the believer. As for the example above, if a person lived his life in separation as an hermit there would be no person to tell him he was living his life wrong and to place the shackles of salvation upon him. He would live a happy life and wouldn't be bothered by such things.

 

[Thief]

Even though it is usually vague and on the fringe of our conscious awareness, we all have an inherent desire for salvation. Bringing this into awareness is the first step. The next step is to identify how to attain salvation.

Before anyone can work toward their salvation, they must be able to get to the starting line. It's important to first recognize that our preconceived notions and the guidance that appeals to us initially will be incorrect. The only guidance that is truthful in this area is intuitive, and it's my view that we all have, from the beginning, an intuitive sense that an opportunity for salvation is available to everyone no matter their circumstances.

Let's take an extreme example of this idea. If there is someone who lives in complete isolation except for access to basic survival needs, this person should have an opportunity for salvation. I'd put forth that this is the starting point, a necessary assumption, and if someone does not believe this, then they are off-track.

This means that if someone thinks any of the following are requirements for salvation, then they are not on the right path:
-Accepting someone as their Lord and savior
-Guidance from scripture
-Access to privileged information such as specific practices or techniques
-Participation in certain rituals or ceremonies
-Knowledge of a God of any kind
-Worship of any kind

Our isolated person would not know that they are required to do any of those things. What I am saying is that we all have access to an intuitive guidance and this is the ONLY method to find our way. Philosophically, believing that certain people are favored with guidance from God or that some are pre-destined for salvation is valid. However, our intuitive guide will occasionally grab our attention to reconsider these ideas. We have to be courageous enough and faithful enough to acknowledge it.

If a requirement for salvation is not available to our isolated person, then it is not true and should be rejected. Metaphorically speaking, we need to tie our hands behind our backs and corner ourselves, and only then do we have the opportunity to find our intuitive guide that can lead us toward truth.

stand on the edge of a steep drop and consider?
would heaven save you if you jump?

I deem consideration for the last hour to be the focus.
and salvation is determined by what heaven sees when you stand from that dust you walk in

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I see the good gods and goddesses, prophets, gurus and sages as examples. Believing in them or that they did certain things is not necessary to achieve salvation. They are supposed to be role models, at least I think of them like that. Brigid, Jesus, Buddha, Thor, ect. I think are supposed to be role models and that by emulating them, it gives you a better chance of having a better life. Doing more good than bad I believe will allow you to visit more realms, higher realms and have an easier time visiting mortals.

 

[Deeje]

Even though it is usually vague and on the fringe of our conscious awareness, we all have an inherent desire for salvation. Bringing this into awareness is the first step. The next step is to identify how to attain salvation.

I would question your very first premise. I don't think wanting to live a good life free from sickness pain and suffering is the same as "an inherent desire for salvation"...I believe it is the life that God first purposed for all humankind and that it is programmed into our hearts to live that life. This life fights with our programming.

Before anyone can work toward their salvation, they must be able to get to the starting line. It's important to first recognize that our preconceived notions and the guidance that appeals to us initially will be incorrect. The only guidance that is truthful in this area is intuitive, and it's my view that we all have, from the beginning, an intuitive sense that an opportunity for salvation is available to everyone no matter their circumstances.

Again, I disagree. If it is all based on intuition then how do we arrive at our need for salvation in the first place? What are we getting "saved" from exactly?

Our "intuition", if it is from God, would lead us all in one direction....it clearly doesn't. Spirituality is inherent in humans as reflective of our Maker, but some humans are more spiritual that others. The ways to express that spirituality are numerous and diverse as we see in the world all through history.
In the days of ancient Israel, God's laws forbade them to explore or participate in the spiritistic practices of the nations. (Deut 18:9-12) So being spiritual, in the wrong way, can lead people away from God as well. This is why we can't rely on ourselves to reach our own conclusions. Jesus was a teacher for a reason.

Let's take an extreme example of this idea. If there is someone who lives in complete isolation except for access to basic survival needs, this person should have an opportunity for salvation. I'd put forth that this is the starting point, a necessary assumption, and if someone does not believe this, then they are off-track.

I have no idea how you arrived at that piece of deduction.

This means that if someone thinks any of the following are requirements for salvation, then they are not on the right path:
-Accepting someone as their Lord and savior

Since accepting the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is a necessary requirement for salvation, this line of reasoning is "off-track" IMO. (Rom 10:9)

-Guidance from scripture

Jesus himself needed guidance from scripture and quoted from it often. (Luke 4:6-8)

-Access to privileged information such as specific practices or techniques

For doing what? No one needs "specific practices or techniques" that are outside of those promoted by Jesus and his apostles.

-Participation in certain rituals or ceremonies

Christianity had no specific rituals or ceremonies apart from the one thing they were commanded to commemorate each year on the anniversary date...the Memorial of the Lord's Supper. (Luke 22:19; 1 Cor 11:23-26)

-Knowledge of a God of any kind

This is getting more bizarre.

-Worship of any kind

Seriously.....you believe you can gain salvation without worship? (Luke 4:8)

Our isolated person would not know that they are required to do any of those things. What I am saying is that we all have access to an intuitive guidance and this is the ONLY method to find our way.

Again you use faulty reasoning to arrive at your conclusions IMO.

Rom 2:12-16:
"12 For all those who sinned without law will also perish without law; but all those who sinned under law will be judged by law. 13 For the hearers of law are not the ones righteous before God, but the doers of law will be declared righteous. 14 For when people of the nations, who do not have law, do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. 15 They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them, and by their own thoughts they are being accused or even excused. 16 This will take place in the day when God through Christ Jesus judges the secret things of mankind, according to the good news I declare."

Your isolated person will be judged on what is in his heart because he has a God-given conscience like every human does, his behavior is judged according to the caliber of the person he is at heart, which will be reflected in his actions and attitudes.

Philosophically, believing that certain people are favored with guidance from God or that some are pre-destined for salvation is valid. However, our intuitive guide will occasionally grab our attention to reconsider these ideas. We have to be courageous enough and faithful enough to acknowledge it.

No one is pre-destined for salvation. At birth, we are all a blank canvas waiting to be painted. If we turn out to be a masterpiece, it will be because of a number of factors.....our genetics, our environment and what is in our own heart to motivate our thinking and actions. A very few individuals in the Bible were pre-destined for certain roles, but by far, most humans write their own destiny in their own history book.

If a requirement for salvation is not available to our isolated person, then it is not true and should be rejected. Metaphorically speaking, we need to tie our hands behind our backs and corner ourselves, and only then do we have the opportunity to find our intuitive guide that can lead us toward truth.

Actually, the Bible tells us that our faith must have works to back it up. (James 2:18) So instead of tying our hands behind our backs, we need to be doing what Christ told us to do and concentrate, not just on our own salvation, but on the salvation of others. (Matt 28:19, 20)
This might involve jumping on an or in a boat and heading over to where your isolated person lives to tell him about Jesus Christ and his message of salvation.....otherwise Jesus has him covered.

 

[George-ananda]

Let's say you are in your house, you are missing something really valuable, and it's located in the basement which you don't even know exists at this moment. On the first floor where you are, there are countless different advisors with very convincing ideas about where this item is located, but all these ideas keep you on the first floor away from the basement. When you eventually dismiss the advice of one advisor, another instantly grabs your attention.

If I approach you and tell you to go look for it in the basement, then I am outnumbered by every other advisor that tells you with full conviction that it's not. By telling you not to listen to any advisors, you have a chance to consider every possibility and you may perhaps find the basement on your own.

Interesting but it doesn't address the question I asked: So then, how does one attain this salvation (as opposed to just how it is not attained)?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Interesting but it doesn't address the question I asked: So then, how does one attain this salvation (as opposed to just how it is not attained)?

The only way is through our intuitive guide known in Christianity as the Holy Spirit. It is hidden behind our internal pain. Do you notice that people often question their belief system during and after times of suffering? This doubt isn't caused by the intellect. As long as we still have internal pain, the Holy Spirit will continue to reach out for us, and then it's up to us to develop the faith to seek it.

 

[George-ananda]

The only way is through our intuitive guide known in Christianity as the Holy Spirit. It is hidden behind our internal pain. Do you notice that people often question their belief system during and after times of suffering? This doubt isn't caused by the intellect. As long as we still have internal pain, the Holy Spirit will continue to reach out for us, and then it's up to us to develop the faith to seek it.

Interesting. I have come to believe God is the core of all of us and our spiritual purpose is to realize our core which is Oneness with all. Salvation is experiencing our core and not all the distractions of the external world.