republics and democracies

[jonjohnrob11]

Fr. Carapil, a priest, once explained to me on the cable channel, EWTN, the difference between a democracy and a republic. i then expanded on why we must choose a republic. let me explain.
a republic requires leaders and laws legislating morality or the difference between right and wrong. some morality is legislated by religions. others by governments to protect people from themselves and others. a democracy only requires voters as it is majority rule and not discerned by leaders. Jesus was crucified by mob rule or a majority of the pharisees and sadduccess which comprised the sanhedrin of religious rulers. pontius pilate succombed to the mob because he would be replaced as governor if another jewish rebellion formed. he might also have been physically disciplined. anyway Jesus didnt break any laws and was put to death by a majority.that's the fallacy of a democracy which could implement injustice.
a republic requires us to elect or leaders who are wise and just and informed. they are able to research and contemplate what is moral and immoral contrary sometimes to public opinion. they must have our trust and support even when we belive or know them to be wrong, as humans are fallible. the working man doesn't usually have the time to contemplate, research and understand every law legislated and must rely on their politicians or leaders to do that for them. that is why they must elect those who do and are held in high esteem not necessarily popular. our government has checks and balances in proclaiming laws. this is also fallible but the best we know right now. next to relligion, politics is the most important issue to discuss as we need to know about our leaders and what they are up to. religion is the most important issue to discuss as we need to know about the people and persons we will spend eternity with. the most important thing to us is happiness unless we are foolish and indifferent, complacent, apathetic, or hateful.

 

[Rex]

Fr. Carapil, a priest, once explained to me on the cable channel, EWTN, the difference between a democracy and a republic. i then expanded on why we must choose a republic. let me explain.
a republic requires leaders and laws legislating morality or the difference between right and wrong. some morality is legislated by religions. others by governments to protect people from themselves and others. a democracy only requires voters as it is majority rule and not discerned by leaders. Jesus was crucified by mob rule or a majority of the pharisees and sadduccess which comprised the sanhedrin of religious rulers. pontius pilate succombed to the mob because he would be replaced as governor if another jewish rebellion formed. he might also have been physically disciplined. anyway Jesus didnt break any laws and was put to death by a majority.that's the fallacy of a democracy which could implement injustice.
a republic requires us to elect or leaders who are wise and just and informed. they are able to research and contemplate what is moral and immoral contrary sometimes to public opinion. they must have our trust and support even when we belive or know them to be wrong, as humans are fallible. the working man doesn't usually have the time to contemplate, research and understand every law legislated and must rely on their politicians or leaders to do that for them. that is why they must elect those who do and are held in high esteem not necessarily popular. our government has checks and balances in proclaiming laws. this is also fallible but the best we know right now. next to relligion, politics is the most important issue to discuss as we need to know about our leaders and what they are up to. religion is the most important issue to discuss as we need to know about the people and persons we will spend eternity with. the most important thing to us is happiness unless we are foolish and indifferent, complacent, apathetic, or hateful.

The U.S. is a republic. To be more specific a Federal Republic.

 

[painted wolf]

I would say that it has become more of an Oligarchy.

whens the last time you saw a non millionare in an important position? :roll:

wa:-do

 

[jonjohnrob11]

well said pw.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

There are LOTS of non millionaires in important positions of power especially at the state and local level of government. In fact, not a single member of my city's City Council is a millionaire.

Besides, rich Senators and Congressmen at the national level still have to make the voters happy to stay in power--that's why things like more welfare reform and heavier taxes (by percent) on the rich get passed even though many legislators are rich.

 

[painted wolf]

true on the local level its more fair... but the higher you go the more it is skewed tword the welthy...

the majority of the tax burden actually falls on the middle class... there are more of us... and we don't get as many tax shelters... ie capitol gains...

If we arn't run by the welthy then why is someone with less than 100 million simply unable to compete on the national level?

every president of the US has been welthy.

wa:-do

 

[Mr Spinkles]

First of all, about 90% of Americans consider themselves "middle class". This is because part of our culture is in not defining ourselves by economic class. We don't experience the kind of class warfare seen in other coutries. Poor and rich Americans alike classify themselves as middle class because Americans tend to see themselves as all having an opportunity to be successful through hard work and ingenuity (there are many examples of Americans starting out poor but gaining wealth with a brilliant idea).

Poor Americans generally don't see their poverty as evidence of a self-perpetuating aristocracy but rather as a temporary situation that they will eventually pull themselves out of (the American dream).

I don't see how most of the tax burden falls on the middle class....Americans in the top 10% for income level pay over 50% of the taxes collected by the federal government (check out http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=4514&sequence=1&from=0) The poorest Americans have about 5% of their income go to taxes, while the richest have 30% of their income go to taxes...

Also remember that the important thing is representation of result...a rich Senator will not just try to help fellow rich people...there are a lot more non-rich than rich voters, and rich votes don't count any more than poor votes do! :mrgreen:

 

[Mr Spinkles]

There are LOTS of non millionaires in important positions of power especially at the state and local level of government. In fact, not a single member of my city's City Council is a millionaire.

Besides, rich Senators and Congressmen at the national level still have to make the voters happy to stay in power--that's why things like more welfare reform and heavier taxes (by percent) on the rich get passed even though many legislators are rich.

 

[painted wolf]

true on the local level its more fair... but the higher you go the more it is skewed tword the welthy...

the majority of the tax burden actually falls on the middle class... there are more of us... and we don't get as many tax shelters... ie capitol gains...

If we arn't run by the welthy then why is someone with less than 100 million simply unable to compete on the national level?

every president of the US has been welthy.

wa:-do

 

[Mr Spinkles]

First of all, about 90% of Americans consider themselves "middle class". This is because part of our culture is in not defining ourselves by economic class. We don't experience the kind of class warfare seen in other coutries. Poor and rich Americans alike classify themselves as middle class because Americans tend to see themselves as all having an opportunity to be successful through hard work and ingenuity (there are many examples of Americans starting out poor but gaining wealth with a brilliant idea).

Poor Americans generally don't see their poverty as evidence of a self-perpetuating aristocracy but rather as a temporary situation that they will eventually pull themselves out of (the American dream).

I don't see how most of the tax burden falls on the middle class....Americans in the top 10% for income level pay over 50% of the taxes collected by the federal government (check out http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=4514&sequence=1&from=0) The poorest Americans have about 5% of their income go to taxes, while the richest have 30% of their income go to taxes...

Also remember that the important thing is representation of result...a rich Senator will not just try to help fellow rich people...there are a lot more non-rich than rich voters, and rich votes don't count any more than poor votes do! :mrgreen:

 

[jonjohnrob11]

the only thing u can take with u after u die is knowledge. everything else remains behind. if u are knowledgable u are rich. love enriches also.

 

[Master Vigil]

How do you know what is taken when you die? Did you die already? No one knows what is taken when someone dies. For all we know nothing could be taken, only energy. They are not discussing what is important after life, they are discussing what is important in life. And even if money doesn't go with you when you die, it goes to your kids who may need it to survive.

 

[trishtrish10]

i haven't met anyone who never died, but i know when i bury a friend or family member that their spirit must go somewhere. otherwise what's the point of death. i also think all creation will be renewed at some time in an afterlife, except maybe for material things. plants and animals have life also and i think that life is also continued. it must be a spiritual world and invisible to us because all life once it ceases to exist on earth leaves behind it's body. therefore matter is contained but not the future of life as we know it. since it seems obvious there is an after life, goes to reason that only love, virtue, vice and knowledge can go with it. my mother died and saw a sea of faces looking in the direction of a white light. she also saw a beautiful green valley. if u believe in God, u know there are horses up there, besides if grass can make it, i'm sure animals can. let alone us humans. personally i believe we get to use all the good knowledge we have in heaven and learn more in heaven. in hell u get to use only bad knowledge and thirst for love as i've been told from someone who saw hell while still on earth. knowledge is usually useless unless u know how to use it. personally i'd like to build God a structure in heaven just for his feet to rest on. Jesus, the Dove and all in heaven. i've read that Joseph made plows, ox apparatus, wheels and tables and chairs for a living and that he was a widower and had four or five kids from his first wife, i don't recall their names but they have been recorded. if u would like to read about Joseph, Jesus' foster father, i will give u the name and author..i'm reading it now. i do suggest tho that u educate yourself in case you need to know something after you die. my mother was dead for 20 minutes and was recussitated, thanks to our wonderful doctors, nurses and paramedics. i know of many books and instances of people seeing heaven, purgatory, and hell. did you know there is a place for everyone in all three? there's room for everyone.

 

[Master Vigil]

"but i know when i bury a friend or family member that their spirit must go somewhere. otherwise what's the point of death."

The point is, your body gets to be decomposed and used to grow more life. Spirits going to heaven is not the point of death, but the point of life. Granted, I don't believe the traditional idea of the christian heaven. However, I do deal with spirits everyday and from what they tell me, its not much different from here. This of course is not the end for spirits, the end is the Tao. Where all is one, and none is all. Where there is perfect balance between all opposites. No ideas, no thoughts, just energy.

"since it seems obvious there is an after life, goes to reason that only love, virtue, vice and knowledge can go with it."

I am not sure if it is obvious, but the spirit does go on to become one with the Tao. And since love, virtue, vice, and knowledge are very subjective terms, I don't see why they would go with you. They are ideas, and I believe ideas are stuck in the physical. The spiritual have no need for ideas, or words. Therefore, I do not believe we remember anything after we die.

"if u believe in God, u know there are horses up there, besides if grass can make it, i'm sure animals can. let alone us humans."

There are animals yes, every thing with life possesses a spirit. But I am not sure if the belief in god makes anyone know this.

"personally i believe we get to use all the good knowledge we have in heaven and learn more in heaven. in hell u get to use only bad knowledge and thirst for love as i've been told from someone who saw hell while still on earth."

Again with the subjective terms. Good and bad are extremely subjective. Subjective ideas only stay dubjective when confined within the mind. Once the mind dies and the soul is completely free from its boundaries, ideas, subjection, objection, good, bad, love, hate, they all disappear. I've dealt with spirits whom many think are demons and are straight from hell. But the interesting thing is, they are not evil. They only try to survive. There is no heaven or hell, there is only Tao.

 

[trishtrish10]

everybody needs love and that is what they thirst for in hell, because it is devoid of it. love is supernatural and attractive to all that's why the devil tries to imitate God. don't let sublte temptations lead u astray. God is subtle and so the devil. just like the coin with ceasar's bust on it. it was illegal to carry false idols into the temple and so coins with ceasar's bust were not allowed inside. the pharisees tried to trick Jesus into false idolatry when asking about the inscription on the coin, knowing that some Jews carried the coins inside the temple. Jesus was very shrewd and turned the instance into a teaching tool by saying give to ceasar what is ceasar's and to God what is God's. the Jews had their own national coins but i can't remember how exactly the occurence went but they were looking for a way to trick Jesus into sinning. thank God they weren't successful.
i dont know what u mean by subjective, but i do know that there are four places one will definitely go after one dies. hell, heaven, purgatory and limbo. frankly i hope i get to go to limbo where all the aborted babies destined for heaven end up. i love babies.