• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Remembrance Project

Nicholas

Bodhicitta
For several years now American have honored those killed by illegal immigrants. This year the day of Remembrance will be Sunday Nov. 4th:

Home
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
"Deaths that could have been prevented if the Congress and the Executive Branch would have secured our border and enforced existing U.S. immigration laws."
This seems scummy to me. Like it's not really about the victims, it's about creating a political narrative and using the deaths as ammunition against political foes. And also giving the false impression that illegal aliens are more likely to be violent than the average population.

It's like the difference between a day of remembrance for those killed in the Orlando shooting with the slogan, "Love, not hate must prevail." With "deaths that could have been prevented if we teach LGBT acceptance in schools against the wishes of religious parents." You're starting with a bad faith argument and shooting productive conversation in the foot.

That said, my sympathies for those families effected by any and all violence. But I won't be utilizing this particular rememberence day for the above reasons.
 

Nicholas

Bodhicitta
That said, my sympathies for those families effected by any and all violence. But I won't be utilizing this particular rememberence day for the above reasons.

Everyone emphasizes what they wish to. If a remembrance event has no political content, then it is superficial, only words, candles & sad faces. If a cause is given for the killings, then one is ignoring the many illegals who do not kill. If a political solution is offered, then it is 'only political' and crass.

So I will observe the first Sunday in November as a reminder that effects have causes, in this case personal victims killed by personal killers, which latter are here illegally.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
This seems scummy to me. Like it's not really about the victims, it's about creating a political narrative and using the deaths as ammunition against political foes. And also giving the false impression that illegal aliens are more likely to be violent than the average population.
I'm viscerally against using death as a political tool whenever it happens. Don't use these deaths to support building a wall, don't use school shooters to support banning weapons, etc.

That said, I think with that last line you are projecting a sentiment that the statement doesn't express. It doesn't say anything about the likelihood of an illegal to be violent, it says, truthfully, that if immigration status were more strictly enforced these deaths would have been preventable. If the murderers, who should never have been in and do not belong in America, had been prevented from entering or if our society was more forceful about not welcoming and supporting illegal immigrants they would not have had the opportunity to murder their victims.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Many MANY more are killed by citizens. Why not memorialize the terrible death toll that does not involve a few. Of course the answer is obvious - to demonize a group.

cdc-deaths-v3-1280x0-c-default.png
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
For several years now American have honored those killed by illegal immigrants. This year the day of Remembrance will be Sunday Nov. 4th:

Home

So, Nicholas, is this authentic or just a political stunt? Why don't we find out?

You seem to be arguing that singling out for "honor" as a special category Americans killed by illegal immigrants is not a political stunt on your part. If it is not, then please answer the following questions straight-forwardly, without evasion.

On the other hand, if it is a mere political stunt on your part, and you're not really intent on honoring them, but rather only concerned with coldly using their deaths to stir up animosity towards illegal immigrants and/or score political points, then please feel free to dodge, duck, or evade the questions.

Do you also "honor" in the run up to the midterm elections people murdered by spouses or ex-spouses and ex-partners who all too easily violated court restraining orders?

Do you also "honor" in the run up to the midterm elections people murdered by ex-convicts who cannot legally posses firearms, but nevertheless all too easily got hold of one to kill?​

In other words, are you genuinely concerned with people whose deaths might have been prevented by a change in the laws, or by better enforcement of existing laws, or are you not? Your call.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
How about a day dedicated to those Americans have killed?

Not a bad suggestion, actually. Most Americans appear to be unaware of how many innocent civilians the wars of aggression that they have condoned have killed. Over a quarter million in Iraq alone, according to some estimates. Maybe if we had an annual day of remembrance for those people, we'd be less likely to support or condone more unnecessary wars.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm viscerally against using death as a political tool whenever it happens. Don't use these deaths to support building a wall, don't use school shooters to support banning weapons, etc.

That said, I think with that last line you are projecting a sentiment that the statement doesn't express. It doesn't say anything about the likelihood of an illegal to be violent, it says, truthfully, that if immigration status were more strictly enforced these deaths would have been preventable. If the murderers, who should never have been in and do not belong in America, had been prevented from entering or if our society was more forceful about not welcoming and supporting illegal immigrants they would not have had the opportunity to murder their victims.
And, truthfully, we have many and more valuable citizens that started out as illegal immigrants. And I wish the right were as mad at the literal nazi in their ranks as they were about a by in large peaceful population looking for opportunities.
 

Nicholas

Bodhicitta
So, Nicholas, is this authentic or just a political stunt? Why don't we find out?

You seem to be arguing that singling out for "honor" as a special category Americans killed by illegal immigrants is not a political stunt on your part. If it is not, then please answer the following questions straight-forwardly, without evasion.

On the other hand, if it is a mere political stunt on your part, and you're not really intent on honoring them, but rather only concerned with coldly using their deaths to stir up animosity towards illegal immigrants and/or score political points, then please feel free to dodge, duck, or evade the questions.

Do you also "honor" in the run up to the midterm elections people murdered by spouses or ex-spouses and ex-partners who all too easily violated court restraining orders?

Do you also "honor" in the run up to the midterm elections people murdered by ex-convicts who cannot legally posses firearms, but nevertheless all too easily got hold of one to kill?​

In other words, are you genuinely concerned with people whose deaths might have been prevented by a change in the laws, or by better enforcement of existing laws, or are you not? Your call.

Yes of course, although for myself I wrote 'observe' not 'honor'. I lament the killing of all animals & humans, especially those whose lives could be saved, as you write: "by a change in the laws, or by better enforcement of existing laws."
 
Top