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Religious Nuts and Atheists!! You're All Wrong!! :)

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
Why would atheism be extreme in the first place? I don't think it's extreme.

Atheists may not be about extreme about atheism- I don't see how they could. But there are non-religious organizations that both theists and atheists (and agnostics) can be a part of: PETA, environmentalists, and such- like any other organization, the majority are NOT extreme, however.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Atheists may not be about extreme about atheism- I don't see how they could. But there are non-religious organizations that both theists and atheists (and agnostics) can be a part of: PETA, environmentalists, and such- like any other organization, the majority are NOT extreme, however.

That's true, atheism can take other avenues of extremism... then again so can religious groups.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
If life is a test given so that those who fail cannot complain about not getting the test but includes those who do not get to take the test, what again is the "purpose" of the test?

Not a test.
Speak as you please.
The angels will return your reward as you say it should be.
So I believe.
 

Orias

Left Hand Path
Religious believers can't prove that what they believe in is true.
Many atheists are just as bad, because they can't prove wrong the beliefs they disagree with. The only thing they can do is point out that the religious believers have no proof that their beliefs are correct. Nevertheless, even with such a weak argument those atheists still have the audacity to think they have the right to call the believers 'wrong' (in the same way believers arrogantly condemn atheists). It only makes sense to say something is 'wrong' or 'right' if you have proof. Religious believers, and atheists have proof of neither. This renders both groups of opinions not worthy of all that much, than being mere 'opinions'. It's ok to have certain views, but it is simply ludicrous to get angry about something you can't even prove is real, or is not real.

Oh but the stupidity doesn't stop there. Oh no. Many religious believers are divided up into gangs/armies of biased bigots. Basically saying "Our religion is the correct religion". Some to the extent where they interpret certain religious teachings the way they want to, so they can condone acts that would usually be regarded as being deeply sinful, but instead are 'justified' by many as being 'in the name of their religion', even though other people within their own religion oppose this and are disgusted with them. Incidents like this represent clear flaws in that religion. Whether there is conflict between certain religions, or conflicts within one specific religion, each conflict is evidence of a big gaping embarrassing flaw. For it not to be flawed, the religion would have to be made clear and precise. There wouldn't be messages in the teachings that were grey areas for you to interpret using your own discretion. There would only be clear facts for you to follow rigidly. However, many people can't see this, and remain to believe the Bible, Quran, etc, right down to every single word (how they've understood it), and think that how they've interpreted it must be right, without even discussing with many other people how they've interpreted it, or asking how they all interpreted it.

I neither believe or don't believe. I'm searching for an answer I probably won't get before I die. Maybe I will find out after I die (if religious people's beliefs turn out to be correct, regarding life after death). Even if many religious beliefs happen to be about something that really is true, I still have the common sense, and knowledge, to know that a religious movement is an institution which involves influence and control. There is a hierarchy like in any other institution. The people at the top have more power than the people at the bottom. Furthermore, a massive amount of religious leaders have committed some of the sickest crimes known to humans. This goes back throughout history and ancient times. Yet, people still don't feel the need to question things, and just blindly follow what feels comfortable and seems right, just because of what they have been taught by other 'people'. Even if things could be proven correct, religion is still a form of brain-washing, especially when taking into consideration the traditional aspects. Some of the strongest influences in life are during childhood, which come directly from your parents/guardians. Most people place more trust in their parents/guardians than in anything else, especially at a young age. I believed in Catholicism when I was a child, because I trusted that what my mother told me was true, so from that I trusted what priests and monks told me, as well as teachers at my catholic schools. It wasn't until I got older that I started thinking for myself, and saying "hold on! This doesn't seem right", in the same way an older child starts questioning Santa, and the tooth fairies. But they'll pretend for a while, to keep getting the money under their pillow, in the same way many other people are happy to be involved in a religion for their own personal gains (whether it be financial, a psychological security blanket, or to network/make friends in high places etc). People seem to forget that religious documentation such as the bible and the quran, were written by (male) human beings, who were highly regarded figures, then the masses of 'regular Joe/Jill' human beings at the time simply took their word for it, because they knew no better than to respect people of a higher status, and be in awe of them. From then on, the writings have been passed down through the generations. But people are less gullible these days, because they're more educated, and more aware of how human psychology works, networking/social structures, and natural selection/the survival of the fittest, as Spencer and Darwin put it. Therefore, even if there really is such thing as God/Allah etc, we still know that much of what was written is nothing more than fiction, or a cryptic way of teaching people about what is right and wrong, however, nowadays we can see that some of what was written was clearly wicked and cruel, especially to women, and homosexuals.

My personal beliefs are as follows:


Get the most out of life you possibly can, and don't waste your talents

Look after your body and mind

Look after your family

Learn from your mistakes, but don't dwell on them and punish yourself

Don't be Lazy

Help others, and help yourself

Appreciate the good others do for you

Treat others how you would like to be treated

Don't be cruel to people (physically or mentally)

Don't be two-faced

Don't express harsh judgmental views about others (unless necessary, for example you think they might harm someone, and it's in the interest of public safety)

Be grateful for what you have, and not be overcome with greed or jealousy

Be honest as much as you can, but be aware that sometimes common sense, and tact is more important. For example, if I knew someone wanted to kill someone, and they asked me if I knew where the person was, I would tell a lie in that situation, and say that I didn't know, to prevent the other person from getting killed. I get wound up by people who say the truth should be used at all times. No! Nothing is ever that cut and dry in life. Sometimes the truth can be more evil than a lie. If God really does exist I think 'tact' was a great gift he/she/it gave to us.

As long as I try my best to stick to all of these personal beliefs, I feel happy that I'm trying my best to be a good person, and contribute to the world. I'm obviously nowhere near perfect, but I'm not running around with a chainsaw murdering people, or feeling up little kids either (like so many religious leaders do). A religion can't make me try any harder, or make me a better person. Only I can make myself be a better person.


Dude you sound like a religious nut and an atheist.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
"Nobody's right if everybody's wrong"- From For What It's Worth by Buffalo Springfield.

Have you ever had a moment is a crowded room....
and when the moment arrives, you speak your mind....
followed by grave silence?

Ever hit the nerve?
 

RitalinO.D.

Well-Known Member
It has been answered already...please read the last few pages to follow the discussion that has already taken place ...

The problem is you haven't answered the question. You are using circular logic to avoid answering a question you aren't capable of answering.

Omniscience and the need to "Test" his "creation" are completely contradictory. There is no sutible answer, for a non-theist at least, that can explain why a being that knows everything that has and will happen, has the need or desire to implement tests he already knows the result to. Your professor analogy is fail because there are several circumstances where the professor could be wrong. Student cheats, studies harder, etc. Your god cannot be wrong, according to the definition of omniscience.

To me, that is a proposition that makes absolutely no sense.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
The problem is you haven't answered the question. You are using circular logic to avoid answering a question you aren't capable of answering.

Omniscience and the need to "Test" his "creation" are completely contradictory. There is no sutible answer, for a non-theist at least, that can explain why a being that knows everything that has and will happen, has the need or desire to implement tests he already knows the result to. Your professor analogy is fail because there are several circumstances where the professor could be wrong. Student cheats, studies harder, etc. Your god cannot be wrong, according to the definition of omniscience.

To me, that is a proposition that makes absolutely no sense.

I say.....
It's not a test.
It's cause and effect.

We were created as lesser beings....on purpose.

If we were made as exacting reflections we would be just that.
And God would be talking to Himself....literally.
Having conversations...sort of....with His own Echo.

The logical recourse.....Man must be less than heaven.
Let him become aware of it.
Let him strive to be more.

If you succeed that you are more than your chemistry......good.
If not....dust you are dust you will be.

Such things I believe.
 

RitalinO.D.

Well-Known Member
I say.....
It's not a test.
It's cause and effect.

We were created as lesser beings....on purpose.

If we were made as exacting reflections we would be just that.
And God would be talking to Himself....literally.
Having conversations...sort of....with His own Echo.

The logical recourse.....Man must be less than heaven.
Let him become aware of it.
Let him strive to be more.

If you succeed that you are more than your chemistry......good.
If not....dust you are dust you will be.

Such things I believe.

That's all fine and well, if that is your perception of things. However, it does nothing to answer the question, or even address it. A large portion of xtians atest to these "tests", yet fail to offer even a glimpse of an explaination to the contradiction. "That's just the way it is" is not a good explaination. Not even a poor one.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
That's all fine and well, if that is your perception of things. However, it does nothing to answer the question, or even address it. A large portion of xtians atest to these "tests", yet fail to offer even a glimpse of an explaination to the contradiction. "That's just the way it is" is not a good explaination. Not even a poor one.

And so....the post I wrote and you quoted.

Indeed, the Christian perspective is wrong. (so I believe....hi there!)
This life is not a test.

I suspect such thinking to be a bleed over from the previous religion that was the Carpenter's.
Jewish scripture is full of incident that appears to be testing.

But again that was not a test either.
And the Carpenter was not attempting to remove Jewish dogma.
He was only trying to teach a more spiritual perspective...hence the parables.

Somewhere in scripture...not sure where exactly....it is written.....
God does not test Man.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
I have always thought if you don't want others to tell you you're wrong, then don't tell them they are wrong. To do otherwise... ;) ;) (Had to say it).
 

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
That's all fine and well, if that is your perception of things. However, it does nothing to answer the question, or even address it. A large portion of xtians atest to these "tests", yet fail to offer even a glimpse of an explaination to the contradiction. "That's just the way it is" is not a good explaination. Not even a poor one.

Is it possible that the test is for our benefit, and not God's? (Sorry just jumpin' in here.)
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Is it possible that the test is for our benefit, and not God's? (Sorry just jumpin' in here.)

Benefit?...only if you survive the test.

It's not a test if the reult is the same repeatedly.

I think it's more like sowing seed in a random fashion.
Then harvest what you can.

Most of what you throw to the wind will fail.
 
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