Religious News: Is a Tele-Seder Kosher?

[dybmh]

"14 Sephardic Orthodox rabbis say Passover Seder can be held via video-conference. In bold ruling, some Israeli religious authorities say use of technology permissible because it allows families to celebrate together during time of crisis."

Hyperlink >>> timesofisrael.com - 14 Sephardic Orthodox rabbis say yes

"The Chief Rabbinate on Tuesday issued guidelines for Passover in the age of corona virus, saying it was not permitted to hold the traditional Seder by video-conference and dismissing a previous ruling by several rabbis who said it was allowed."

Hyperlink >>> timesofisrael.com - Israel’s chief rabbis say no

 

[Harel13]

I don't think that there's much to discuss on the subject. The Chief Rabbinate immediately called the notion irresponsible on the part of the rabbis who issued it. Just think about it: if you were to leave some sort of program on, pre-Yom Tov, it might turn off at some point, or there may be some other issue - which would cause many people to start pressing buttons and such in order to fix the issue - thereby causing chillul Yom Tov in any case. The odds of this not happening, I think, are pretty low. This could also cause problems in later years - people could think that although even those Sephardic rabbis emphasized that this was a one-time leniency, perhaps it would still be okay to do this again and again (e.g. "what's the harm with one more time?", etc).

 

[RabbiO]

"14 Sephardic Orthodox rabbis say Passover Seder can be held via video-conference. In bold ruling, some Israeli religious authorities say use of technology permissible because it allows families to celebrate together during time of crisis.".....

"The Chief Rabbinate on Tuesday issued guidelines for Passover in the age of corona virus, saying it was not permitted to hold the traditional Seder by video-conference and dismissing a previous ruling by several rabbis who said it was allowed."

I think you will find that there is almost complete unanimity within Orthodoxy that virtual seders violate halakhah.

You might be interested in this from within the Conservative movement -
Streaming Seder | The Rabbinical Assembly

 

[dybmh]

I don't think that there's much to discuss on the subject.

I think you will find that there is almost complete unanimity within Orthodoxy that virtual seders violate halakhah.

Thank you both.

I just wonder about the Rabbis, why have the minority opinion? Are they simply lenient? These Rabbi's are simply less Orthodox? And this is yet another example?

Also, does the argument that these Rabbis employed in order to allow the Tele-Seder have merit? Halachically, are these Rabbis saying that gathering with friends and family for the Seder is an "essential" element for completing the obligations on the 1st night of Passover? So much so that ramification of setting up the skype or face-time are set temporarily aside?

 

[Harel13]

Thank you both.

I just wonder about the Rabbis, why have the minority opinion? Are they simply lenient? These Rabbi's are simply less Orthodox? And this is yet another example?

Also, does the argument that these Rabbis employed in order to allow the Tele-Seder have merit? Halachically, are these Rabbis saying that gathering with friends and family for the Seder is an "essential" element for completing the obligations on the 1st night of Passover? So much so that ramification of setting up the skype or face-time are set temporarily aside?

It does have merit. Passover is a time of joy, and yes, of family. The Talmud's descriptions of Passover encouraged larger familial gatherings.
Which is the reasoning of those rabbis. Since this came out, some oft hose rabbis withdrew their permission to do this but some have stood firm.

 

[dybmh]

It does have merit. Passover is a time of joy, and yes, of family. The Talmud's descriptions of Passover encouraged larger familial gatherings.
Which is the reasoning of those rabbis. Since this came out, some oft hose rabbis withdrew their permission to do this but some have stood firm.

Thanks Harel!

 

[Tumah]

I don't think that there's much to discuss on the subject. The Chief Rabbinate immediately called the notion irresponsible on the part of the rabbis who issued it. Just think about it: if you were to leave some sort of program on, pre-Yom Tov, it might turn off at some point, or there may be some other issue - which would cause many people to start pressing buttons and such in order to fix the issue - thereby causing chillul Yom Tov in any case. The odds of this not happening, I think, are pretty low. This could also cause problems in later years - people could think that although even those Sephardic rabbis emphasized that this was a one-time leniency, perhaps it would still be okay to do this again and again (e.g. "what's the harm with one more time?", etc).

 

[Tumah]

"14 Sephardic Orthodox rabbis say Passover Seder can be held via video-conference. In bold ruling, some Israeli religious authorities say use of technology permissible because it allows families to celebrate together during time of crisis."

Hyperlink >>> timesofisrael.com - 14 Sephardic Orthodox rabbis say yes

"The Chief Rabbinate on Tuesday issued guidelines for Passover in the age of corona virus, saying it was not permitted to hold the traditional Seder by video-conference and dismissing a previous ruling by several rabbis who said it was allowed."

Hyperlink >>> timesofisrael.com - Israel’s chief rabbis say no

Even according to your first link, no, not if your Ashkenazi. The Sephardic Rabbis are relying in part on the fact that earlier Sephardic Rabbis have allowed the usage of electronics on the Holidays. Ashkenazi Rabbis do not.

 

[dybmh]

earlier Sephardic Rabbis have allowed the usage of electronics

Were these temporary allowances, special cases similar to what's happening now with the virus?

 

[Tumah]

Were these temporary allowances, special cases similar to what's happening now with the virus?

From what it sounds like, it looks like it was those Rabbis' general opinion on electronics.

 

[dybmh]

From what it sounds like, it looks like it was those Rabbis' general opinion on electronics.

hmmm... that's odd...

Then there's really no story here? Is the opinion of these 14 Sephardic Rabbi's actually bold as the article suggests? It just sounds unOrthodox.

 

[Harel13]

hmmm... that's odd...

Then there's really no story here? Is the opinion of these 14 Sephardic Rabbi's actually bold as the article suggests? It just sounds unOrthodox.

Oh, in Israel it is a story. Even Sephardic people raised their eyebrows when they heard of it. It is unorthodox. I don't think anyone today still holds that electricity is okay on shabbat and mo'ed (in mo'ed terms, for something that's not for eating purposes). A friend of mine told me that the electricity leniency is based more on lack of complete understanding of how electricity worked (we're talking about a psak from the late 19th-early 20th century).

 

[dybmh]

Oh, in Israel it is a story. Even Sephardic people raised their eyebrows when they heard of it. It is unorthodox. I don't think anyone today still holds that electricity is okay on shabbat and mo'ed (in mo'ed terms, for something that's not for eating purposes). A friend of mine told me that the electricity leniency is based more on lack of complete understanding of how electricity worked (we're talking about a psak from the late 19th-early 20th century).

So yeah, I wonder what is happening internally for the Rabbis who are still today maintaining the unorthodox position. Maybe I'll read about them...

 

[Tumah]

I should also point out that they're not talking about starting the application on the holiday. They specifically say to have it running before the holiday starts.

 

[Harel13]

I should also point out that they're not talking about starting the application on the holiday. They specifically say to have it running before the holiday starts.

Well, not exactly. The application would start before the holiday starts, but they added that should it turn off, a person could turn it back on based on the electricity leniency.

 

[Tumah]

Well, not exactly. The application would start before the holiday starts, but they added that should it turn off, a person could turn it back on based on the electricity leniency.

I don't see that. It says that there's a possibility that someone might turn it back on. For them, the Rabbis rely on the ruling that it's always permitted. But the wording indicates that people shouldn't turn it back on. Just that if they did, they have who to rely on.

 

[dybmh]

I was honestly looking fwd to having a small Seder at home. What I'm trying to do is, I'm trying to understand the pressure that would render this sort of re-evalution ( assuming that a re-evaluation occurred ). Where is this pressure coming from? It seems to me this is highlighting an important element to the seder which I had not considered... Also, I appreciate the glimpse into a current Halachic debate.

 

[Harel13]

I was honestly looking fwd to having a small Seder at home.

There are merits to a small Seder, too.
Last year I was at a Seder that had about 60 people. Now, granted - most of the people there weren't religious, but they knew the basic gist of the Seder. Yet it was just too wild, too noisy for my liking.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Thank you both.

I just wonder about the Rabbis, why have the minority opinion? Are they simply lenient? These Rabbi's are simply less Orthodox? And this is yet another example?

Also, does the argument that these Rabbis employed in order to allow the Tele-Seder have merit? Halachically, are these Rabbis saying that gathering with friends and family for the Seder is an "essential" element for completing the obligations on the 1st night of Passover? So much so that ramification of setting up the skype or face-time are set temporarily aside?

The question of whether a tele-Seder is kosher depends entirely on the Rabbi and (I think) what denomination of Judaism they are from.

For example, the Orthodox Rabbis in Israel have ruled that tele-Seders are a no-no. But my Reform synagogue is having a tele-Seder the second night of Pesach.

I am assuming that the Orthodox position has to do with the prohibition of using computers on Shabbat/Holy Days. It turns on/shuts off electrical current, which is the equivalent of kindling a flame. For Jews of the Reform persuasion, how we keep the Shabbat/Holy Days is more personally determined, what works for us. Any input for other Jews is appreciated.