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Religious Freedom Bill passed in Missisippi.

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
Again the extremes is what you're going for. Mind you there are aeveral reasons why you can't take more than one wife that results in the persons freedom
Being acted against.

To say freedom doesn't exist isn't true but we certainly aren't granted absolute freedom.

Well you're either free or you're not. You can't be 'a little bit free' or 'free here or not free there'. You're either all in or all out, otherwise it's all just a certain range of permitted behaviour. You also didn't answer my question.
 
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1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
That's not what I mean. Do you want to be forced to do what you think is wrong?


Except it isn't wrong. The Bible makes no mention of homosexuality in of itself being a sin, merely that engaging in homosexual activity is considered sinful. Nowhere in the Bible does it promote discrimination against homosexuals, nor does it suggest that homosexuality in of itself be found offensive by anyone. I have yet to see anyone provide any Biblical support behind this law.

Do you really think Jesus Christ would stand behind a shop counter saying 'Sorry, no gays!'

Like I said. This has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with political agendas.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
Except it isn't wrong. The Bible makes no mention of homosexuality in of itself being a sin, merely that engaging in homosexual activity is considered sinful. Nowhere in the Bible does it promote discrimination against homosexuals, nor does it suggest that homosexuality in of itself be found offensive by anyone. I have yet to see anyone provide any Biblical support behind this law.

Do you really think Jesus Christ would stand behind a shop counter saying 'Sorry, no gays!'

Like I said. This has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with political agendas.

Why do they need biblical support? Especially since not everyone's beliefs are based on the bible? See, you still don't even understand what the bill does.

No, but Nazi Germany began very much with a scenario of denying certain people certain things and evolved slowly from that.

Which is what you want to do. Glad you understand.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Indeed I used the wrong term. You guys got me. Let me jump on the band wagon of ignoring the nature of real life and deny private business owners their basic rights while allowing the government to force minorities to cater to those who hate them.

Oh wait, this isn't Nazi Germany. Never mind

I already explained that these laws aren't about protecting minority business owners. I have no idea where you got that idea from. It's about protecting the "right" of Christians to use their religion to discriminate against groups they don't like, like LGBT people.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
I would also go as far as to say that people do not have the right to bigotry, discrimination, hatred and all that stuff in commerce, industry and economical circles anymore. Since freedom does not, and has never existed anyway, perhaps it's time to redress the idea of 'freedom to...' or 'right to...'

We have freedoms but not absolute freedom. You can't have absolute freedom and a stable society at the same time since absolute freedom would mean freedom to kill whoever you wanted, to rape, to steal, etc. So certain behaviors aren't permitted in societies.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
I already explained that these laws aren't about protecting minority business owners. I have no idea where you got that idea from. It's about protecting the "right" of Christians to use their religion to discriminate against groups they don't like, like LGBT people.

See, I have yet to find a person against the bill who actually understands what it accomplishes. Whether or not the bill was created by bigots to deny service to Christians or not is irrelevant, such a bill would never pass. Instead, we have a bill where the government will protect any business owners right to deny service to anyone based on religious or moral grounds. I've given examples for this and why it is a very good law several times in this thread, you can find them if you truly desired.

You're a Luciferian, man! Stop eating up whatever the biased media throws at you and do the research yourself.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
See, I have yet to find a person against the bill who actually understands what it accomplishes. Whether or not the bill was created by bigots to deny service to Christians or not is irrelevant, such a bill would never pass. Instead, we have a bill where the government will protect any business owners right to deny service to anyone based on religious or moral grounds. I've given examples for this and why it is a very good law several times in this thread, you can find them if you truly desired.

You're a Luciferian, man! Stop eating up whatever the biased media throws at you and do the research yourself.

The way the supporters of this specific bill describe it is as a way for religious individuals and groups to get around zoning laws for houses of worship and such. They're describing it in a completely different way than what is being discussed in this thread. But this bill is worded so vaguely that I'm not sure anyone really knows what it means. I suspect it will probably get thrown out.

Being a Luciferian doesn't mean I have to agree with you.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
The way the supporters of this specific bill describe it is as a way for religious individuals and groups to get around zoning laws for houses of worship and such. They're describing it in a completely different way than what is being discussed in this thread. But this bill is worded so vaguely that I'm not sure anyone really knows what it means. I suspect it will probably get thrown out.

Being a Luciferian doesn't mean I have to agree with you.

I'm not saying agree, I'm saying take the time to gain knowledge of what the bills says instead of arguing fallacies provided by biased organizations
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
I'm not saying agree, I'm saying take the time to gain knowledge of what the bills says instead of arguing fallacies provided by biased organizations

As if the supporters of the bill aren't biased themselves. Yeah, I'll definitely take the opinions of the Family Research Council in mind. :rolleyes:

I know how to read and look things up for myself, thanks.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
As if the supporters of the bill aren't biased themselves. Yeah, I'll definitely take the opinions of the Family Research Council in mind. :rolleyes:

I know how to read and look things up for myself, thanks.

Considering the number of people like myself who are for these bills yet against bigotry and closed mindedness and such, obviously there is something strange going on here (or at least any critical evaluation will turn this up). That's not even what I mean though. What I mean is people like you are coming in saying this is a pro-Christian anti-LGTB bill and that is the end of the story. As has been argued and shown again and again (and again and again and again and again and again and again...) that is not the case.

Say that you yourself own a business, and in comes one of your high school teachers from a religious school you attended who tried to beat the devil out of you. You were harassed for your beliefs just as your homosexual friends or atheist friends were harassed as well. To you, this is a terrible person, and in your own place of business - a place where you put your money in blood into - you do not want to provide her whatever services you offer. What you are arguing is that the government should force you to.

Let us look at a homosexual photographer who is asked to help do a shoot for an anti-gay marriage campaign. What you are saying is that the government should force them to participate in this despite the distaste they have for the campaign and despite the fact that they are the ones who own their business and will willfully lose their own profits.

Let's look at a Jewish restaurant where - because they are dicks - a group of Neo-Nazis comes in and gets the lowly Jews to serve them. They come in with their tank tops, sporting their tattoos, and their smug attitude. What you are saying is that the government should force the Jewish business owners, who personally own the establishment and would only be hurting their own profits by kicking the customers out, to serve the Neo-Nazis.

Let's now look at a hotel that is privately owned by a family that is pro-choice. A group wants to come in and host a gala to raise funds for a pro-life organization. According to you, it is fine for them to be forced by governmental laws to host a gala supporting something they are morally opposed to despite the fact that it is their property, their income, and their building.

Really? Think about that, because this is the position you are supporting. If you want to allow the government to control how citizens can act in their own establishments, who they can let on their property, and all that comes with this - fine. Build yourself a time machine, go back to the 40s, and take your pick of horrible fascist governments. Hell, continue down this path and maybe America can create its own gestapo who will hunt down homophobes and ship them off to concentration camps. Luckily, the bill was passed, and all sorts of bills supporting individual rights are being passed, so those of us still holding on to the concept of America will hopefully not have to fall victim to the government controlled, fascist country you so desprately want simply because you feel you are more entitled to certain rights than others.

That's all there is to say.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Considering the number of people like myself who are for these bills yet against bigotry and closed mindedness and such, obviously there is something strange going on here (or at least any critical evaluation will turn this up). That's not even what I mean though. What I mean is people like you are coming in saying this is a pro-Christian anti-LGTB bill and that is the end of the story. As has been argued and shown again and again (and again and again and again and again and again and again...) that is not the case.

Say that you yourself own a business, and in comes one of your high school teachers from a religious school you attended who tried to beat the devil out of you. You were harassed for your beliefs just as your homosexual friends or atheist friends were harassed as well. To you, this is a terrible person, and in your own place of business - a place where you put your money in blood into - you do not want to provide her whatever services you offer. What you are arguing is that the government should force you to.

Let us look at a homosexual photographer who is asked to help do a shoot for an anti-gay marriage campaign. What you are saying is that the government should force them to participate in this despite the distaste they have for the campaign and despite the fact that they are the ones who own their business and will willfully lose their own profits.

Let's look at a Jewish restaurant where - because they are dicks - a group of Neo-Nazis comes in and gets the lowly Jews to serve them. They come in with their tank tops, sporting their tattoos, and their smug attitude. What you are saying is that the government should force the Jewish business owners, who personally own the establishment and would only be hurting their own profits by kicking the customers out, to serve the Neo-Nazis.

Let's now look at a hotel that is privately owned by a family that is pro-choice. A group wants to come in and host a gala to raise funds for a pro-life organization. According to you, it is fine for them to be forced by governmental laws to host a gala supporting something they are morally opposed to despite the fact that it is their property, their income, and their building.

Really? Think about that, because this is the position you are supporting. If you want to allow the government to control how citizens can act in their own establishments, who they can let on their property, and all that comes with this - fine. Build yourself a time machine, go back to the 40s, and take your pick of horrible fascist governments. Hell, continue down this path and maybe America can create its own gestapo who will hunt down homophobes and ship them off to concentration camps. Luckily, the bill was passed, and all sorts of bills supporting individual rights are being passed, so those of us still holding on to the concept of America will hopefully not have to fall victim to the government controlled, fascist country you so desprately want simply because you feel you are more entitled to certain rights than others.

That's all there is to say.

I've already addressed all that in multiple posts. I'm not interested in using the government to support people's petty issues with others. If you refuse service to someone because of a personal bigotry, you should be sued and embarrassed. The government has no place protecting your personal prejudices.

End of story. Keep your misplaced fear-mongering about "fascism" out of it because it has nothing to do with this. That dog won't hunt.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
I've already addressed all that in multiple posts. I'm not interested in using the government to support people's petty issues with others. If you refuse service to someone because of a personal bigotry, you should be sued and embarrassed. The government has no place protecting your personal prejudices.

End of story. Keep your misplaced fear-mongering about "fascism" out of it because it has nothing to do with this. That dog won't hunt.

"People who's views I'm bigoted against should be sued and embarrassed."

Obviously I was wrong about you.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
"People who's views I'm bigoted against should be sued and embarrassed."

Obviously I was wrong about you.

Nope. Business owners who refuse services to members of the public because they have a personal issue is what I said. Don't twist my words. That's not honest.

Also, this bill says nothing about political grievances or anything like that. It's purely about religion. You're making this bill out to be something it's not.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
Nope. Business owners who refuse services to members of the public because they have a personal issue is what I said. Don't twist my words. That's not honest.

Also, this bill says nothing about political grievances or anything like that. It's purely about religion. You're making this bill out to be something it's not.

Religion, values, etc. I've said nothing about politics as far as I know. It seems your problem is with these bills defining owners and businesses as "individuals". That a far better point than to be saying you're more entitled than people you disagree with to be able to be open about your values.
 
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