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Religious Fanatic

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Yes, those 2 questions were genuine. And I know I forgot the question marks, but in the lines i phrased clearly that they were questions I don't elaborate on.

Yes you did not answer my 2 questions, so I understand your reply "Not really"
I can answer your question
And when you answer these 2 questions then probably you understand my replies
Okay then.

My answer to your first question is "No, because I don't believe God exists, and if God does exist I would have no idea whether they would."
My answer to your second question is "No, because I don't believe God exists, and if God does exist I would have no idea whether they would."

Would you be able to answer my question now?
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
You might be surprised at what some people consider fantastical.

Do your know that some people think that persons who go to a place of worship every (Sunday), read the Bible every day, etc., are fanatics?


Meanwhile, all college students who bother to attend classes every day and study regularly are now "fanatics" as well. If you want to dilute the meaning of the word "fanatic" to the point that it no longer means the level of extreme it is supposed to mean, sure, I guess? Some people don't care about the English language like that (artful use of hyperbole notwithstanding of course). I'm not one of them.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
What do you say to the parents of children who died due to rejection of medicine on religious grounds?

First of all I would never advice parents nor children to reject medicine. It must be devastating to lose your child in such a away. But I do respect their own choice.

When I was 15 years old the father of my friend committed suicide, by hanging himself in the house. My friend[+sister/mother] found him hanging. I remember that I was quite worried "what to say at that time". But I just went there and was there for him. and that was enough. He never forgot it, and years later he mentioned how much he appreciated it, that I was there for him. I did nothing special. A few times I have experienced, that it is enough to just be there for someone. No need to say anything, not judging the situation is enough (people can feel it if you judge them).

So if I meet people who just lost a child due to rejection of medicine I would do the same. Just be there for them. I would not even bring up the subject. If they are ready to talk about it, then it's fine. In the case of my friend he spoke a few times about it, he could also talk with his family about it. And he was thankful that I stayed his friend all the time. Many people spoke judgmental about his father leaving the family alone behind, that was bothering him also. I empathized with him but refrained from giving my opinion [if I remember well], just let him talk, that was enough and be there for him. It's already hard enough to forgive and find your peace with this, having others expressing there opinions about it only makes it more difficult to process such a trauma I think.
 
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Spiderman

Veteran Member
First of all I would never advice parents nor children to reject medicine. It must be devastating to lose your child in such a away. But I do respect their own choice.

When I was 15 years old the father of my friend committed suicide, by hanging himself in the house. My friend[+sister/mother] found him hanging. I remember that I was quite worried "what to say at that time". But I just went there and was there for him. and that was enough. He never forgot it, and years later he mentioned how much he appreciated it, that I was there for him. I did nothing special. A few times I have experienced, that it is enough to just be there for someone. No need to say anything, not judging the situation is enough (people can feel it if you judge them).

So if I meet people who just lost a child due to rejection of medicine I would do the same. Just be there for them. I would not even bring up the subject. If they are ready to talk about it, then it's fine. In the case of my friend he spoke a few times about it, he could also talk with his family about it. And he was thankful that I stayed his friend all the time. Many people spoke judgmental about his father leaving the family alone behind, that was bothering him also. I empathized with him but refrained from giving my opinion [if I remember well], just let him talk, that was enough and be there for him. It's already hard enough to forgive and find your peace with this, having others expressing there opinions about it only makes it more difficult to process such a trauma I think.
Although it is very traumatizing to find a loved one hanging or dead from suicide or anything,
Sometimes when a dog or cat is in agony, it's best to put the animal to sleep (death). It is the compassionate thing to do to kill them comfortably.

If I had a loved one break their neck and be paralyzed from the neck down, that would be far worse for me than if they died quickly, even from suicide.

I had a friend break his neck in high school, and wind up paralyzed from the neck down for life. I saw him in the hospital with a halo drilled into his skull and he couldn't move his arms or feel anything below his neck. It was the saddest thing ever and still haunts me today. :( That was over 15 years ago, and I'm still traumatized by what his life would have been like from that day forward.

I really hope he is dead now. Honestly, I see how much some people suffer, and even if it was my brother, sister, mom, dad, best friend, I would actually be happy for them that they died and their suffering ended.

I hope God understands why people commit suicide and that he doesn't punish them for it.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I hope God understands why people commit suicide and that he doesn't punish them for it.

Do you still believe in a God who punishes? How come?

My God loves unconditional, meaning ............................
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
What if it just means someone who is fanatical about his faith and isn't bothering anyone at all? Someone who prays a lot, whose language is peppered with religious thinking, observes everything as faithfully as he can and so on?
I’d say that “zeal”and “fanaticism” are two different things.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Religious fanatic, or rational human being?
This girl was only fourteen. What do you think of her?
Do you consider her to be a religious brainwashed fanatic, or a rational thinking person?
Her experience.
Neither. I’d say her parents were neglectful and she was very, very lucky.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
What? Are you denying those links dealt with science? Or are you saying that science is only science when it is "right"?

So my point is, no matter how "time tested" it is, it has not become right. Time still continues, and over time the "time tested" do adjust or change with time.
The article does show that the "time tested" is still undergoing adjustment to improve or if need be replace.
With science the testing never ends.

So what about those thousands of successfully achieved medical surgeries without blood that are meeting the test?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/doctors-explore-potential-benefits-of-bloodless-surgery/
THE RISE OF ALTERNATIVES TO ALLOGENEIC BLOOD

Nothing to say on those?


I'm, saying that individual scientists can be mistaken, but the scientific method is designed to root out such mistakes. It's a wonderful self-correcting method that has proven itself to be more reliable than any other method humans have ever used to determine how the universe functions. All of your examples of flawed science that was found to BE flawed just goes to show how well the scientific method works.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
IMO it only shows they have "faith in the ancient text". I don't see that as "acting in a fanatical manner" at all. Why you "label others that way?".


You little sneaky ....
I just love such a sudden twist:D



Thanks a lot, this is useful information. I am curious if all the people who were judgmental sofar can "say sorry" now and admit "judgment is not wise always".
I am just curious, did you have above information already up your sleeve when starting the OP, or it just came to you right now?

People can have faith in virtually anything, even diametrically opposed concepts, so clearly faith is not a reliable path to truth.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
People can have faith in virtually anything, even diametrically opposed concepts, so clearly faith is not a reliable path to truth.

That is your opinion, but it is not a fact. I have a different opinion, but I "leave it at that"

May All Be Blessed
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
The verses speak of those things forbibben in Jewish law that remain applicable under the new covenant. Jeremiah 31:31

Actually the law on the consumption of blood started with Noah when he was first given permission to consume flesh. This was long before the formation of the nation of Israel and the written Law.

Genesis 9:4-6 ...."Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for you. Just as I gave you the green vegetation, I give them all to you. 4 Only flesh with its life—its blood—you must not eat. 5 Besides that, I will demand an accounting for your lifeblood. I will demand an accounting from every living creature; and from each man I will demand an accounting for the life of his brother. 6 Anyone shedding man’s blood, by man will his own blood be shed, for in God’s image He made man." Blood and life are interchangeable. Sacred to God.

The sanctity of blood meant that it could not be consumed, no matter the method of administration. It was reinforced in the Law of Moses, (Leviticus 17:13-14) and restated again for Christians. (Acts 15:28-29)

If you as a physician, told one of your patients to abstain from alcohol or any other drug and they refrained from taking it by mouth, would it still be consuming it if it was injected straight in to their veins? Would they be "abstaining"? If a patient cannot consume food, are they not fed intravenously?

The reference to things strangled and blood concern consumption of foods. Attempting to apply the verses to blood transfusions as part of a medical procedure in modern times appears completely out of context.

Acts 15:28-29....
"For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!"

Things strangled were not properly bled, so were not fit for consumption by God's people. Jews already knew this but the statement given to Christians was primarily for the benefit of Gentiles who were used to sacrificing to idols, consuming blood, and the meat of unbled animals. They were also used to committing immorality, so hence the directive to abstain from fornication as well.

Can I ask how much the average doctor knows about the downside of blood transfusions? How informed are they by a system that is proving every day how little it cares for its patients in comparison to how much it cares about its bottom line. The medical system as it operates in the west today is a money-hungry juggernaut. That is not to criticize the doctors who appear to be as hoodwinked as their patients when it comes to writing prescriptions. That is what medicine is today.....pills for this and pills for that, but not a real cure for what ails anyone. Anyone who threatens their profit margins will be dealt with. They have governments wrapped around their little finger so they can enforce ridiculous laws based on their false information and bogus studies.

Powerful drug companies classify medicines such as cannabis as a schedule 1 drug...right up there with heroin. Yet there are no recorded deaths from cannabis overdose. In fact there are no dangerous side effects compared to accepted pharma drugs. Opioids for example.
Now it is revealed that their motive in demonizing cannabis is not because the drug is dangerous, but because it is so beneficial that it could put many truly dangerous pharma drugs in the trash where they belong.

There is a groundswell of opposition now that the truth is out there and the real motives of the drug companies has been revealed. If Cannabis is going to be used, big pharma wants to control its efficacy and its cost. Making it hard for the average person to even get a script for its altered composition, which because it is a whole plant medicine, will reduce any beneficial effects. They will make sure that the cost will be huge for the consumer. People could grow it in their gardens for free, but the law listens to criminals who are robbing us blind.

The official studies are thin on the ground because big pharma won't conduct them, but the testimonials on a vast range of illnesses are too numerous to deny.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLI4e6id6XBz7WyWJyTyEXWeTsNrfLJhDy

Another promising therapy is stem cells. An amazing discovery into how our own stem cells can heal so many problems within our bodies. All they need to do is harvest these stem cells from the patient's own body, concentrate them, and re-inject them into the problem areas to form new cartilage, new tissue and repair organs. But the medical big wigs will make it sound like 'quackery' because it is so simple and cheap, utilizing the body's own repair system, and it has the potential to replace a lot of expensive surgery and drug treatments. Profit is again the driver for downplaying this therapy, and keeping these treatments out of reach for the average person.

It appears as if the lid is being lifted on a whole range of institutions that we once trusted, but now we see how corrupt they were all along. God actually said he would do this in the end times....and its happening.

"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." (2 Peter 3:10 ESV)

"Love of money IS the root of all evil".

Sadly, I believe that most doctors are kept in the dark as much as the public is? :(
 
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nPeace

Veteran Member
Actually the law on the consumption of blood started with Noah when he was first given permission to consume flesh. This was long before the formation of the nation of Israel and the written Law.

Genesis 9:4-6 ...."Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for you. Just as I gave you the green vegetation, I give them all to you. 4 Only flesh with its life—its blood—you must not eat. 5 Besides that, I will demand an accounting for your lifeblood. I will demand an accounting from every living creature; and from each man I will demand an accounting for the life of his brother. 6 Anyone shedding man’s blood, by man will his own blood be shed, for in God’s image He made man." Blood and life are interchangeable. Sacred to God.

The sanctity of blood meant that it could not be consumed, no matter the method of administration. It was reinforced in the Law of Moses, (Leviticus 17:13-14) and restated again for Christians. (Acts 15:28-29)

If you as a physician, told one of your patients to abstain from alcohol or any other drug and they refrained from taking it by mouth, would it still be consuming it if it was injected straight in to their veins? Would they be "abstaining"? If a patient cannot consume food, are they not fed intravenously?



Acts 15:28-29....
"For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!"

Things strangled were not properly bled, so were not fit for consumption by God's people. Jews already knew this but the statement given to Christians was primarily for the benefit of Gentiles who were used to sacrificing to idols, consuming blood, and the meat of unbled animals. They were also used to committing immorality, so hence the directive to abstain from fornication as well.

Can I ask how much the average doctor knows about the downside of blood transfusions? How informed are they by a system that is proving every day how little it cares for its patients in comparison to how much it cares about its bottom line. The medical system as it operates in the west today is a money-hungry juggernaut. That is not to criticize the doctors who appear to be as hoodwinked as their patients when it comes to writing prescriptions. That is what medicine is today.....pills for this and pills for that, but not a real cure for what ails anyone. Anyone who threatens their profit margins will be dealt with. They have governments wrapped around their little finger so they can enforce ridiculous laws based on their false information and bogus studies.

Powerful drug companies classify medicines such as cannabis as a schedule 1 drug...right up there with heroin. Yet there are no recorded deaths from cannabis overdose. In fact there are no dangerous side effects compared to accepted pharma drugs. Opioids for example.
Now it is revealed that their motive in demonizing cannabis is not because the drug is dangerous, but because it is so beneficial that it could put many truly dangerous pharma drugs in the trash where they belong.

There is a groundswell of opposition now that the truth is out there and the real motives of the drug companies has been revealed. If Cannabis is going to be used, big pharma wants to control its efficacy and its cost. Making it hard for the average person to even get a script for its altered composition, which because it is a whole plant medicine, will reduce any beneficial effects. They will make sure that the cost will be huge for the consumer. People could grow it in their gardens for free, but the law listens to criminals who are robbing us blind.

The official studies are thin on the ground because big pharma won't conduct them, but the testimonials on a vast range of illnesses are too numerous to deny.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLI4e6id6XBz7WyWJyTyEXWeTsNrfLJhDy

Another promising therapy is stem cells. An amazing discovery into how our own stem cells can heal so many problems within our bodies. All they need to do is harvest these stem cells from the patient's own body, concentrate them, and re-inject them into the problem areas to form new cartilage, new tissue and repair organs. But the medical big wigs will make it sound like 'quackery' because it is so simple and cheap, utilizing the body's own repair system, and it has the potential to replace a lot of expensive surgery and drug treatments. Profit is again the driver for downplaying this therapy, and keeping these treatments out of reach for the average person.

It appears as if the lid is being lifted on a whole range of institutions that we once trusted, but now we see how corrupt they were all along. God actually said he would do this in the end times....and its happening.

"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." (2 Peter 3:10 ESV)

"Love of money IS the root of all evil".

Sadly, I believe that most doctors are kept in the dark as much as the public is? :(
Very good points Deeje.
Perhaps that's why they call them blood bank$$$. :(
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
If you as a physician, told one of your patients to abstain from alcohol or any other drug and they refrained from taking it by mouth, would it still be consuming it if it was injected straight in to their veins? Would they be "abstaining"? If a patient cannot consume food, are they not fed intravenously?

There is a world of difference between someone injecting a drug for recreational purposes (or to get a high) and a compotent medical physician administering an intravenous therapy to treat a medical condition.

The two scenarios are simply not comparible.

It appears an intepretative error to me to extrapolate a prohibition on doctors administering a blood transfusion to treat hypovolemic shock from the verses of Acts of the Apostles 15, especially when they clearly refer to the consumptions of certain foods.

That is my perspective and I know how the JWs view it so we just agree to disagree on that one. :)

Acts 15:28-29....
"For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!"

Things strangled were not properly bled, so were not fit for consumption by God's people. Jews already knew this but the statement given to Christians was primarily for the benefit of Gentiles who were used to sacrificing to idols, consuming blood, and the meat of unbled animals. They were also used to committing immorality, so hence the directive to abstain from fornication as well.

Those verses appear to strengthen the case for them not to be applied to blood transfusions.

Do you know of any other Christian denominations that interpret these verses in the same manner as the JWs?

Can I ask how much the average doctor knows about the downside of blood transfusions? How informed are they by a system that is proving every day how little it cares for its patients in comparison to how much it cares about its bottom line. The medical system as it operates in the west today is a money-hungry juggernaut. That is not to criticize the doctors who appear to be as hoodwinked as their patients when it comes to writing prescriptions. That is what medicine is today.....pills for this and pills for that, but not a real cure for what ails anyone. Anyone who threatens their profit margins will be dealt with. They have governments wrapped around their little finger so they can enforce ridiculous laws based on their false information and bogus studies.

I'm a general practitioner so wouldn't be involved in administering blood transfusions. However there is a good level of education about the risks and benefits of any medical intervention we are likely to adminsiter and we are always updating our medical education and considering new information.

First we need to consider the indication or reason for a blood transfusion, then weight up the risks and benefits.

So for surgical patients lets have look at a few resources on the web:

User friendly information for patients

http://www.lhsc.on.ca/Patients_Fami...ion_Program/Benefits_of_blood_transfusion.htm

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/heal...s-guide-to-blood-transfusions/risks--benefits

A research article:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8864080

Here's some guidelines from your country:

https://www.blood.gov.au/system/files/documents/companion-21-pbm-guidelines.pdf

Powerful drug companies classify medicines such as cannabis as a schedule 1 drug...right up there with heroin. Yet there are no recorded deaths from cannabis overdose. In fact there are no dangerous side effects compared to accepted pharma drugs. Opioids for example.
Now it is revealed that their motive in demonizing cannabis is not because the drug is dangerous, but because it is so beneficial that it could put many truly dangerous pharma drugs in the trash where they belong.

There is a well known association between cannabis and psychosis including the onset of schizophrenia.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2892048

I have no problem with cannabis being used as a therapy providing we have scientific evidence to support its use for any given illness and we properly understand the risks and benefits.

There is a groundswell of opposition now that the truth is out there and the real motives of the drug companies has been revealed. If Cannabis is going to be used, big pharma wants to control its efficacy and its cost. Making it hard for the average person to even get a script for its altered composition, which because it is a whole plant medicine, will reduce any beneficial effects. They will make sure that the cost will be huge for the consumer. People could grow it in their gardens for free, but the law listens to criminals who are robbing us blind.

Everyone knows the pharmaceutical industry is big business. However I don't see its helpful to overplay the corrupt drug company narrative to the extent that we demonise drug companies and call them evil. Governments and communities need to put more resources into universities or publicly run institutions to undertake the necessary research our medical community relies on. We need to be more active participants in the admistrative affairs of our community.

Sorry, but I doubt if masses of people growing pot in their back garden and smoking it will benefit the health of our communities.

Another promising therapy is stem cells. An amazing discovery into how our own stem cells can heal so many problems within our bodies. All they need to do is harvest these stem cells from the patient's own body, concentrate them, and re-inject them into the problem areas to form new cartilage, new tissue and repair organs. But the medical big wigs will make it sound like 'quackery' because it is so simple and cheap, utilizing the body's own repair system, and it has the potential to replace a lot of expensive surgery and drug treatments. Profit is again the driver for downplaying this therapy, and keeping these treatments out of reach for the average person.

Stem cell research is making progress.

It appears as if the lid is being lifted on a whole range of institutions that we once trusted, but now we see how corrupt they were all along. God actually said he would do this in the end times....and its happening.

On the other hand people are living longer and having more productive lives. Do you think the health system has had any role to play in that?

"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." (2 Peter 3:10 ESV)

"Love of money IS the root of all evil".

Sadly, I believe that most doctors are kept in the dark as much as the public is? :(

My experience with medical professionals (my colleagues) is positive. We have a well educated workforce including many Christians who applyng their skills and knowledge to the betterment of their communities.

I do share your concern about some of the ills of our community as relates to ungodliness in our communities.

As Baha'u'llah said:

The vitality of men’s belief in God is dying out in every land; nothing short of His wholesome medicine can ever restore it. The corrosion of ungodliness is eating into the vitals of human society; what else but the Elixir of His potent Revelation can cleanse and revive it?… The Word of God, alone, can claim the distinction of being endowed with the capacity required for so great and far-reaching a change.

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/bic/SB/sb-12.html
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
The verses speak of those things forbibben in Jewish law that remain applicable under the new covenant. Jeremiah 31:31

The reference to things strangled and blood concern consumption of foods. Attempting to apply the verses to blood transfusions as part of a medical procedure in modern times appears completely out of context.
Let's look at it this way.
Say you were instructed, not to consume any alcohol under any circumstances.
Someone makes you a great cake - the traditional way. Would you be following the instructions, if you ate the cake?
It has in alcohol, so no, you won't.

The instructions were simple. The person did not go into every possible situation as to where or how you would violate that instruction.

Neither could you be honestly accused of "attempting to apply" the instructions to situations current or future.
You simply are following the instructions.

If for example someone came up with a new way or method that involves using alcohol - suppose it was even some kind of therapy, all you have to do is remember the instructions.
Why? Because of the principle - under no circumstances are you to consume alcohol. So whether it goes through you mouth, your veins, your pores... you refuse - you follow the instructions.

It is as simple as that.
The instruction to abstain from blood is no different.
Jehovah's Witnesses are simply following the instruction.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
There is a world of difference between someone injecting a drug for recreational purposes (or to get a high) and a compotent medical physician administering an intravenous therapy to treat a medical condition.

The two scenarios are simply not comparible.

It appears an intepretative error to me to extrapolate a prohibition on doctors administering a blood transfusion to treat hypovolemic shock from the verses of Acts of the Apostles 15, especially when they clearly refer to the consumptions of certain foods.

That is my perspective and I know how the JWs view it so we just agree to disagree on that one. :)



Those verses appear to strengthen the case for them not to be applied to blood transfusions.

Do you know of any other Christian denominations that interpret these verses in the same manner as the JWs?



I'm a general practitioner so wouldn't be involved in administering blood transfusions. However there is a good level of education about the risks and benefits of any medical intervention we are likely to adminsiter and we are always updating our medical education and considering new information.

First we need to consider the indication or reason for a blood transfusion, then weight up the risks and benefits.

So for surgical patients lets have look at a few resources on the web:

User friendly information for patients

http://www.lhsc.on.ca/Patients_Fami...ion_Program/Benefits_of_blood_transfusion.htm

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/heal...s-guide-to-blood-transfusions/risks--benefits

A research article:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8864080

Here's some guidelines from your country:

https://www.blood.gov.au/system/files/documents/companion-21-pbm-guidelines.pdf



There is a well known association between cannabis and psychosis including the onset of schizophrenia.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2892048

I have no problem with cannabis being used as a therapy providing we have scientific evidence to support its use for any given illness and we properly understand the risks and benefits.



Everyone knows the pharmaceutical industry is big business. However I don't see its helpful to overplay the corrupt drug company narrative to the extent that we demonise drug companies and call them evil. Governments and communities need to put more resources into universities or publicly run institutions to undertake the necessary research our medical community relies on. We need to be more active participants in the admistrative affairs of our community.

Sorry, but I doubt if masses of people growing pot in their back garden and smoking it will benefit the health of our communities.



Stem cell research is making progress.



On the other hand people are living longer and having more productive lives. Do you think the health system has had any role to play in that?



My experience with medical professionals (my colleagues) is positive. We have a well educated workforce including many Christians who applyng their skills and knowledge to the betterment of their communities.

I do share your concern about some of the ills of our community as relates to ungodliness in our communities.

As Baha'u'llah said:

The vitality of men’s belief in God is dying out in every land; nothing short of His wholesome medicine can ever restore it. The corrosion of ungodliness is eating into the vitals of human society; what else but the Elixir of His potent Revelation can cleanse and revive it?… The Word of God, alone, can claim the distinction of being endowed with the capacity required for so great and far-reaching a change.

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/bic/SB/sb-12.html
You seem to be saying that man's decisions are wise.
How many times have we seen the seemingly good efforts of man backfire on him? Then he has to run around trying to fix the problems he created.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Would you really think someone who had a blood transfusion is the same as an idolater or fornicator?

In Acts, they were simply trying to figure out what rules they needed to give the gentile converts. Blood transfusions were unknown.

Do you know what the "letter" is?
Romans 2:29, Romans 7:6, 2 Corinthians 3:6

The "Letter" is the written letter. In other words it's the scriptures. So we are not living to scriptures, but to the holy Spirit. Or at least that's what we're supposed to be doing that. In this case literally living to the literal scripture could literally kill you because you need blood.

So remember that Jesus allowed His disciples to gather heads of grain to eat on the Sabbath day. Jesus worked on the Sabbath. Healing people. Jesus claimed that it was okay for David and his men to eat the show-bread that was normally forbidden.

Even the Maccabees had to learn the hard way. They initially refused to fight on the Sabbath day. However the enemy killed over a thousand of them who refused to defend themselves. After that, the rest of the Maccabees decided(correctly) that God didn't mind if they fought on the Sabbath day when necessary.
:facepalm:
What do you mean by
Would you really think someone who had a blood transfusion is the same as an idolater or fornicator?
Why would you even ask me that?
 
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