Religious Fanatic

[stvdv]

Religious fanatic, or rational human being?
This girl was only fourteen. What do you think of her?
Do you consider her to be a religious brainwashed fanatic, or a rational thinking person?
Her experience.

I never understand why people judge other people's decision, if it has nothing to do with them

People who criticize the decision of this girl only declare one thing "I don't have faith in God"

This girl has faith in God. That is the difference.

 

[ChristineM]

Is there anything inherently wrong with being a religious fanatic?

In some cases, yes. Isis is made up of religious fanatics. Terrorists in the name of religion tend to be fanatical about their religion and account for many atrocities.

 

[Spiderman]

Thanks.

Who is saying religious fanatics necessarily hurt others, though?

Then again, I suppose the term 'religious fanatic' is kind of vague.

Technically I am a Religious fanatic even though I blaspheme.

I pray all the time and want to die so I can see what is on the other side.

It is my longing for spiritual perfection and unity with spirits that makes me want to die, and I pray most of the time, and go to daily mass, with little interest in activities that are not spiritual.

That is fanatical to some standards.

But i don't hurt anyone and I'm fine with other beliefs as long as they don't impose them on others!

So, maybe its okay. I don't know.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Religious fanatic, or rational human being?
This girl was only fourteen. What do you think of her?
Do you consider her to be a religious brainwashed fanatic, or a rational thinking person?
Her experience.

Brainwashed religious fanatic.

 

[74x12]

Religious fanatic, or rational human being?
This girl was only fourteen. What do you think of her?
Do you consider her to be a religious brainwashed fanatic, or a rational thinking person?
Her experience.

Both I guess. Jehovah's Witnesses completely twist those verses making them much stricter than they are supposed to be. But I admire her decision to stick to her convictions regardless of what I think about the conviction itself.

 

[Sir Doom]

Religious fanatic, or rational human being?
This girl was only fourteen. What do you think of her?
Do you consider her to be a religious brainwashed fanatic, or a rational thinking person?
Her experience.

I think she's a minor meaning its not fair to draw either distinction. Her parents on the other hand...

I would not describe them as fanatical or rational either.

If they had refused to treat her at all, I would say fanatical. But they sought treatment and got it. They disagreed with a procedure. People do that all the time for all sorts of reasons. It turns out that it wasn't necessary. I can almost bet the transfusion is SOP handed down from above the doctor for insurance purposes (meaning it lessons the chances of complications leading to liability), which would explain the refusal to do the surgery without it (just guessing here but that's often the case from what I understand).

I would not say that scripture is a rational reason to refuse a procedure, but all reasons need not be rational. I know lots of people who 'hate' local anesthesia when they go to the dentist. I've heard a ton of different reasons as to why, but in all reality they just like to get high on the gas instead. I don't blame them, to be honest but that's really not that rational at all.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Religious fanatic, or rational human being?
This girl was only fourteen. What do you think of her?
Do you consider her to be a religious brainwashed fanatic, or a rational thinking person?
Her experience.

Although I do not agree with some of the JW beliefs including the interpretation of on the biblical verse about blood, the JWs are a recognised denomination of Christianity and should be respected as such. We need to be extremely careful before using language like brainwashed or fanatic as there is such a diversity of religious belief both within Christianity and other religions.

During my medical training I assisted with a bowel resection on a JW patient with bowel cancer. The man in his 50s clearly needed the operation otherwise he would die. The surgeon simply had a candid discussion about the risks and benefits of the procedure and performed the surgery after obtaining written informed consent. The patients operation was successful and he made a full recovery although it took slightly longer to recover from the post-operative anaemia.

I was impressed that the surgeon accommodated the patients religious beliefs without too much fuss. On the other hand it is a more complicated issue when a minor is placed at increased risk because of their religious beliefs.

 

[Earthling]

Religious fanatic, or rational human being?
This girl was only fourteen. What do you think of her?
Do you consider her to be a religious brainwashed fanatic, or a rational thinking person?
Her experience.

Rational human being.

Some information on blood. The Bible says that the life is the soul, which is in the blood of any living thing. When God gave Noah permission to eat animals it was with the stipulation that the blood be poured on the ground to recognize that that life belonged to Jehovah. It was sacred. At that time blood wasn't used for anything else, so anything the JWs decide otherwise regarding any other use for blood is strictly human opinion. Not based upon scripture. There is the command to abstain from blood, but that is in reference to ingesting it.

JW's can't use certain products because they contain blood. Plywood and glue to name a couple things. I personally decided not to join the JWs because the abstinence from blood is compulsory. Thousands have died due to the ban on blood and thousands had died due to a similar ban on organ transplants which wasn't scriptural and the Watchtower changed their policy.

They can't even store their own blood in advance of surgery so they are not using another's blood. If the blood leaves the body in the procedure, it is unacceptable. The question is, is transfusion equal to eating blood?

I think it should be a matter of conscience. Up to the individual.

On the other hand many medical procedures have been shown to be more safe and efficient without blood transfusions, which are potentially harmful.

 

[siti]

Plywood and glue to name a couple things.

Plywood and glue? They wanted to fix her spine with plywood and glue? That definitely seems a bit out there to me. No wonder she refused.

But seriously...plywood and glue - I just can't get past this...no seriously...the poor girl is devout not fanatical...

...plywood and glue? Where did you get that from?

...anyway, she didn't try to stop anyone else having a blood transfusion (or plywood and glue as far as I can tell) - JWs do not picket blood banks (or plywood stockists) or sabotage operating theaters, they don't shoot doctors who use blood transfusions (or as far as I am aware, carpenters who use plywood and glue) and they conscientiously accept the risk of their decisions (I suppose they must use masonite and nails) - I get that people get upset when minor children are involved - but in this case, a 14-year-old might very well be mature enough to make their own choice. People refuse medical treatments (and plywood and glue) for all kinds of reasons - my own grandmother refused surgery and chemo when she had breast cancer because she was afraid she would die under anesthetic...ultimately the cancer went into remission by itself and she eventually died of a heart attack several years later. I don't recall whether she had any preferences regarding plywood and glue though.

 

[Earthling]

Plywood and glue? They wanted to fix her spine with plywood and glue? That definitely seems a bit out there to me. No wonder she refused.

But seriously...plywood and glue - I just can't get past this...no seriously...the poor girl is devout not fanatical...

...plywood and glue? Where did you get that from?

...anyway, she didn't try to stop anyone else having a blood transfusion (or plywood and glue as far as I can tell) - JWs do not picket blood banks (or plywood stockists) or sabotage operating theaters, they don't shoot doctors who use blood transfusions (or as far as I am aware, carpenters who use plywood and glue) and they conscientiously accept the risk of their decisions (I suppose they must use masonite and nails) - I get that people get upset when minor children are involved - but in this case, a 14-year-old might very well be mature enough to make their own choice. People refuse medical treatments (and plywood and glue) for all kinds of reasons - my own grandmother refused surgery and chemo when she had breast cancer because she was afraid she would die under anesthetic...ultimately the cancer went into remission by itself and she eventually died of a heart attack several years later. I don't recall whether she had any preferences regarding plywood and glue though.

From the 1964 Watchtower

"Not only is blood being used in connection with modern medical practices, but it is reported that blood is now being used in a variety of products, such as adhesives for making plywood, particle board, hardboard, bottle crowns, furniture and musical instruments. Blood is also being used in polymerization of rubber compounds, insecticidal binder, settling compound for industrial waste treatment, clear water purification (paper industry), uranium purification, foaming agent for lightweight cellular concrete, fire foaming agent, wine clarifying agent, paper coatings and binders, paper flocculants and sizes, replacement of casein in latex emulsions, emulsified asphalt, cork composition, photoengraving platemaking solutions, leather-finishing operations, water-resistant binder of pigments for print dyeing on cotton cloth, fertilizers, animal foods, and amino acid production, such as histidine and histamine, for example. Perhaps additional uses of blood will come to light in the future. In the world the uses of blood are numerous and none of these is in accord with the Biblical method of handling blood, which is to be spilled on the ground. However, the Christian is not responsible for the worldly misuse of blood, what other people do with it, and he cannot spend all his time undertaking detailed research regarding the various misuses of blood in the world of mankind, especially when it comes to nonedible products. If he did so, he would have less time left for preaching the good news of God’s kingdom. To some persons, it may be a hard decision to make as to where one should be employed. It resolves itself to a matter of conscience."

 

[siti]

the Christian is not responsible for the worldly misuse of blood, what other people do with it, and he cannot spend all his time undertaking detailed research regarding the various misuses of blood in the world of mankind, especially when it comes to nonedible products.

You seem to have missed the point here - which was that JWs should not worry too much about blood being used in - for example - plywood.

 

[Earthling]

You seem to have missed the point here - which was that JWs should not worry too much about blood being used in - for example - plywood.

I don't know if I agree with that. I mean it (plywood) sounds silly, but think about it. Blood is life. It's sacred to Jehovah who created life. The soul isn't some metaphysical or philosophical concept, some primitive nonsense. It's the blood. Life.

 

[stvdv]

the Christian is not responsible for the worldly misuse of blood, what other people do with it,

Agreed. If we stop worrying what other people do, we would have much more peace

You seem to have missed the point here - which was that JWs should not worry too much about blood being used in - for example - plywood.

Disagreed. @RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha exactly "hit the point". JWs don't worry, they just don't use blood. Others should NOT worry whether or not JWs worry IMHO

I don't know if I agree with that. I mean it sounds silly, but think about it. Blood is life. It's sacred to Jehovah who created life. The soul isn't some metaphysical or philosophical concept, some primitive nonsense. It's the blood. Life.

Personally I also believe "Blood is life", that is the main reason I eat vegetarian diet. So I fully respect JWs in this. For myself I prefer also not to get other blood in my body.
The worst that can happen is that I die refusing blood. I am fine dying. People who think for others what they should do are just expressing their own fear to die I think.

God created this universe, so He can take care of me. No need for a doctor. Doctors are there for people who do not trust God to take care. They need to keep control.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Am I the only one upset the family and the medical professionals let it go that long?

https://www.webmd.com/back-pain/causes-scoliosis#1

That doesn't just appear out of thin air, especially if it's due to poor positioning issues.

 

[nPeace]

Unfortunately I only have about 10 minutes to respond to you guys, but these are some interesting comments.

 

[nPeace]

More like at the mercy of her parents.

I think she's lucky.

at the mercy of her parents?

How do you make the judgment that she is following the wishes of her parents, or being forced into doing what her parents want?

I understand people have views, and sometimes make judgments based on their views rather than the facts. That happens often.

What if you were told that her decisions were not directed by her parents, and were in fact against her parents?

I personally know of individuals her age, who have made such decisions against their parents will. They made an informed decision, based on their understanding, of what they learned.


Why lucky?
I don't think that gives much credit to the skills of professional surgeons.

 

[nPeace]

May the OP elaborate a bit about those two choices? Perhaps present a few more?

As it stands, the text is sort of odd.

I should probably have included the definition. Sorry about that.

A dictionary I use says this:
fanatic - noun
A person motivated by irrational enthusiasm (as for a cause)

Does this help?

I don't know what you mean by

the text is sort of odd

Is there anything inherently wrong with being a religious fanatic?

I guess it would depend upon how the expression is defined.

If one goes with the definition above, it would be considered wrong by reasonable people, because the fanatic is not acting with sound judgment.
Irrational - not consistent with or using reason.

We all are responsible for the effects of our beliefs in the well-being of ourselves and others.

I agree with that.

I guess I am sort of strict on this matter.

I more or less don't believe that it is possible for anyone not to cause damage out of lack of wisdom.

This I think is true.

 

[nPeace]

@nPeace - after reading the story, I don't understand your characterization of it. It's the story of a young girl who stuck to her convictions and found a doctor willing to accommodate them. Successfully, I might add. Why are you framing this as being fanaticism versus rationality? The behavior of the girl and her family in the story doesn't strike me as fanatical at all anyway. We're not talking a story of a girl who decides to bomb a blood donation center.

You might be surprised at what some people consider fantastical.

Do your know that some people think that persons who go to a place of worship every (Sunday), read the Bible every day, etc., are fanatics?

 

[nPeace]

I would say that if you hold not hurting others (or yourself), as a higher value than your particular flavor of fanaticism then you should be ok. But I agree, this girl was gambling with her own life for very dubious reasons.

Well, I guess if there was ever a doubt in her mind that doubt was erased.

However, from my experience, and what I know of those who have genuine faith, doubt is not involved. It's just a matter a choice - one over the other - blood or no blood.

In other words,
Girl - "I want to get well. What are my options?"
Doc - "Well you only have option A."
Girl - "I prefer not to have option A. Is there an option B."
Doc - "Sorry. I only do option A. In my book, that's the only option."
Girl - "Okay. I'll see if there is anyone with an option B."

Obviously there are always other options. Some may not like the other options, but everyone gets to choose - apples or oranges.

 

[nPeace]

I think you might be confusing devout with fanatical. All fanatics are devout, but not all devout people are fanatics, so far as I can see.

Ah. That's well put.

The only thing is, and it's kind of sad, some devoted people are viewed as fantastics - simply because they are not understood, or because they are disliked, or unpopular.