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That's crap what you say. You speak from profound ignorance with beaming confidence.
Elucidate
You can make experiences of oneness makyo if you cling to them or "make a nest out of "oneness." If you try to get away from the mystery through conceptualization, you can also be prone to makyo, imo.
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My request was very clear. Kindly share a pre-20th century translation of the Bible (not random quotes) which mentions the concept of union with God. I'm curious to know how the concept of union with God fits in with the below
1. Original Sin
2. Eternal Heaven
3. Eternal Hell
4. Creationism
5. Jesus the only way
6. We're all sinners
7. Judgement Day
8. Resurrection
9. Satan
King James Version does not contain anything to do with union with God. Laodicea, the end-time church of Revelation
Answer the above please Thana instead of beating around the bush. I will change my views if you can successfully show me a pre-20th century translation of the Bible that focusses on union/mysticism/enlightenment. And also how union of God fits in with the above 9 Christian beliefs that I've pointed out. Be back in a while
I just have to say, I offer a deep bow to the knowledge that possesses you. :namaste I breathe a sigh of knowing with you, my brother.If that were the case, then you have a real problem with St. Paul of Tarsus. His life helps answer Sunstone's excellent question in the OP I think too, so let me try and kill two birds with one stone
His authentic Letters are the earliest Christian documents that we posses; the sayings and life of Jesus were at that time chiefly passed around orally or through primitive documents such as the hypothetical Q source underlying the synoptic and the Passion narrative and Signs Gospel thought to underpin the Gospel of John's traditions.
He never knew Jesus personally. His conversion to Christianity rested around a profound religious experience whereby he beheld, not Jesus the mortal man, but the Living Son of God. Paul saw a blinding light on the Damascus Road, and then an invisible voice spoke to him (Gal 1:13-17; Acts 9:1-9).
According to Galatians, he tells us that immediately after this episode he fled to the deserts of Arabia, obviously to contemplate what this experience meant and discern his new path in life.
He then began to have "visionary" experiences such as one in which he realized that the church was the "mystical body of Christ" (1 Corinthians 11) with each believer being part of it.
His spiritual journey developed from this into full-blown mysticism. In 2 Corinthians, he lets slip that his ability, although never having known Jesus, to compose inspired literature and teachings that would become Christian scripture, stemmed from a profound experience in which he lost conscious awareness of both himself and creation, a characteristic example of "non-sensuous" mysticism. He explains how he was, “caught up to the third heaven — whether in the body or out of the body I do not know; God knows…. [And was] caught up into Paradise and heard things that are not to be told, that no mortal is permitted to repeat” (2 Cor 12:1-4).
Being unable to describe adequately with words what one has "experienced", is a classic example of ineffability, one of the qualifying signs of a mystical experience. There are states one will never understand alone with the rational human intellect however one can experience it. Thus two later Christian mystics noted:
His lack of awareness as to whether he was "in the body or out of the body" indicates the breakdown of his surface intelligence and a lose of awareness of himself of a distinct "I".
This is confirmed by his famous declaration in Galatians: "It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me" (Galatians 2:20).
A later Christian mystic, from the Syrian Orthodox Church, had the exact same experience (and I use his as my signature quote):
John of Dalyatha in one of his letters refers too, "Paul, the philosopher of the Spirit" as his inspiration.
As Evelyn Underhill, an early 20th century scholar of Christin mysticism noted:
Last of all, St. Paul's experience of this state which he calls the "third heaven" was described by another medieval Catholic mystic, Jacapone da Todi, who claimed to experience the same:
The upshot of my argument is this: No, religious experiences and mystical experiences are not necessarily the same. Atheists, such as Sam Harris, can lay claim to mystical experiences and many religious believers have had none.
Nevertheless, religious experiences can "start" off a journey that will eventually lead to mysticism, as happened in the case of Paul.
Therefore the majority of history's mystics, although by no means all, have usually been affiliated with religions.
Also religious people will often relate their mystical experiences to their religion and use terminology applicable to it in their descriptions thereof.
Let me be blunt. You are clueless to what you level criticism against. Have you ever had any mystical experience at all? If you have, then lets talk about that, rather than your trying to piece together some metal puzzle in your head. Without any Taste of that which transcends any definitions in your mind, you will ever and only be batting at something in your head which is nothing but just that. Let me know if you have anything to bring to the table by way of personal experience so we can have a discussion. If not, well, it's all just theory to you, right? In which case, how do you know anything in this area?
I don't doubt that you are indeed willing to shed your ignorance. But what is now at issue here is whether or not you possess an understanding of logic and reasoning sufficient to grasp anything the folks in this thread -- especially Vouthon -- are trying to impart to you. So, please answer my question. Do you think your second statement logically supports your first?