Religious belief and morality

[Valjean]

Why are Americans so paranoid and fearful? There is no outside military threat to the US, and most of the animosity towards us is the result of our military adventurism and nation building.
The military is protecting us from enemies it, itself created. More of the same "protection" will only create more enemies.

I see the greatest threats arising from internal strife and global warming.

 

[Valjean]

Sorry to burst your bubble but you are protected by the armed forces of Norway.

And because Norway's military pretty much minds its own business and stays in Norway it hasn't generated enemies all over the world. Norway doesn't need much protection.

 

[Valjean]

Ah, you are one of the guys who go directly to the extreme
I was asked by the military about this when I was supposed to enroll, and my answer then and still is. I will do anything in my power to stop them, except not to use weapons or kill.
If I die in protecting my fianceè so be it, but it is very little chance something like this happens where I live. far from gangs and evil people.

Apparently Spartan, as a Christian, would give up his chance of eternal life defending his earthly treasures.
His bellicose attitude certainly isn't Christian.

 

[Wandering Monk]

And because Norway's military pretty much minds its own business and stays in Norway it hasn't generated enemies all over the world. Norway doesn't need much protection.

Erm... they got rolled by the Nazis eighty years ago.

Did the Norwegians manage to throw them out? Nope. Other nations had to defeat the Nazis to free Norway.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Apparently Spartan, as a Christian, would give up his chance of eternal life defending his earthly treasures.
His bellicose attitude certainly isn't Christian.

In my understanding he come from a background of military service, so it does not surprise me that he see attack on others as normal. But i choose not to judge him

 

[Valjean]

Erm... they got rolled by the Nazis eighty years ago.

Did the Norwegians manage to throw them out? Nope. Other nations had to defeat the Nazis to free Norway.

That's why we created the United Nations; to collectively prevent any more wars like that. The UN is supposed to be policing the world, not the US. Yet we've emasculated it and are impoverishing ourselves with our world wide military presence.

The Scandinavian countries are not currently under existential threat. Russia, I think, is more of an annoyance than a present danger.

 

[Wandering Monk]

That's why we created the United Nations; to collectively prevent any more wars like that. The UN is supposed to be policing the world, not the US. Yet we've emasculated it and are impoverishing ourselves with our world wide military presence.

The Scandinavian countries are not currently under existential threat. Russia, I think, is more of an annoyance than a present danger.

I agree with this post, but the UN is not up to the task of being world policeman. They don't have the military power to enforce their rule of law.

 

[Spartan]

Apparently Spartan, as a Christian, would give up his chance of eternal life defending his earthly treasures.
His bellicose attitude certainly isn't Christian.

Flush.

You're another one who is apparently lost on the subject. Have you never read Romans chapter 13 - concerning those who are God's selected government agents of wrath against evildoers?

In addition, it appears you're set on casting all those who fought and died against our enemies into Hell. All those buried at Normandy, Arlington Cemetery, etc., etc. And all of us who served in Vietnam fighting for freedom for the South Vietnamese against the Communist butchers. And everyone who protects their homes and families from butchers and rapists, etc., are also going to drop down into Hell because of your senseless, spineless, myopic nonsense. If folks who thought like you were at Valley Forge, they'd have folded up their tents in a New York minute.

So why don't you just put a "Gun Free Zone" sign in your front lawn and see how that works out for you? Advertise it on the Web! Get all your liberal friends with their bongs and comic books and have yourself a tea party, and enjoy your Utopian fantasies?!

 

[Spartan]

In my understanding he come from a background of military service, so it does not surprise me that he see attack on others as normal. But i choose not to judge him

What are we supposed to do with enemies like the Nazis? Not attack them when they declare war against us?

 

[SomeRandom]

What are we supposed to do with enemies like the Nazis? Not attack them when they declare war against us?

You lot dragged your feet against the Nazis if I recall history class correctly. We were out there fighting the threat alongside our allies. America wanted nothing to do with the “European squabble” and only entered post Pearl Harbour.
Yeah, thanks for the protection. It only cost us like thousands of lives while you saw the threat as foreign and seemingly didn’t care until it affected you guys directly.

(If you’re not American then I apologise.)

 

[Spartan]

You lot dragged your feet against the Nazis if I recall history class correctly. We were out there fighting the threat alongside our allies. America wanted nothing to do with the “European squabble” and only entered post Pearl Harbour.

Yeah, it was getting to be a habit wet-nursing your sorry rear ends every time you get in trouble over there. We wanted to see if you could handle it on your own, but there you were groveling in the mud again crying for your mothers.

Yeah, thanks for the protection. It only cost us like thousands of lives while you saw the threat as foreign and seemingly didn’t care until it affected you guys directly.
(If you’re not American then I apologise.)

Oh I'm American, alright. Apparently it didn't dawn on you guys to take charge of Hitler and Germany before they became dangerous again. Typical liberal mindset. Coddle and appease (Neville Chamberlain) the vicious morons until they start biting you on your rear ends again.

p.s. I visited Sydney twice on R&R from Vietnam during the war. Nice city, nice country! Cheers...

 

[Spirit of Light]

That's why we created the United Nations; to collectively prevent any more wars like that. The UN is supposed to be policing the world, not the US. Yet we've emasculated it and are impoverishing ourselves with our world wide military presence.

The Scandinavian countries are not currently under existential threat. Russia, I think, is more of an annoyance than a present danger.

Russia has no intention to attack Norway so yes we do not need to fear them.

 

[Spirit of Light]

What are we supposed to do with enemies like the Nazis? Not attack them when they declare war against us?

Nazism ended after WW2, those guys who call them self nazist today are not the same.
As i said i do not have enemies. I do not worry the way you do.
I do not hate foreign people or different religious people.

 

[Valjean]

I agree with this post, but the UN is not up to the task of being world policeman. They don't have the military power to enforce their rule of law.

Exactly -- emasculated.
We talked a good game -- all peace and co-operation and Never Again, but the major powers were afraid to relinquish power, and distrustful of anyone but themselves. So we end up with a toothless UN and a Cold War, later followed by PNAC/RAD.

 

[SomeRandom]

Yeah, it was getting to be a habit wet-nursing your sorry rear ends every time you get in trouble over there. We wanted to see if you could handle it on your own, but there you were groveling in the mud again crying for your mothers.
..

No America was exhausted by WWI, as were we all. No one wanted to get into yet another brawl in European politics. But when our allies sounded the call, we loyally and bravely answered (or perhaps stupidly, depending on your perspective.)
We simply don’t have the weaponry our American warmongering cousins have, we’re a ragtag isolated country in the middle of nowhere, more used to battling the weather and avoiding poisonous animals.
We still answered the call, we stood up and gave it a crack.
We were still suffering the after shock of WWI.
But America, with it’s boastful military prowess, internationally known for absolutely loving to interfere in everyone else’s business, suddenly you get cold feet?
What bout of cowardice overtook you guys? Since when do you give up an opportunity to show off and “help?”
You’ve never really done that before. It was bizarre and you know you probably could have helped prevent needless deaths in the three years it took for you to finally pull your finger out.

Did we not jump up when 9/11 happened and you asked for international support?
Did we leave you guys to sort out your own drama?
No, we gave you our blood. Our sons and daughters. And we did so without hesitation. And we’d do it again in the blink of an eye. Because that’s what allies are supposed to do.
Thanks so much for the protection by the way. You know getting us all killed because you guys kicked another hornet’s nest. We are all very grateful to have died for your causes time and time again.
But we will answer your call regardless.

Oh I'm American, alright. Apparently it didn't dawn on you guys to take charge of Hitler and Germany before they became dangerous again. Typical liberal mindset. Coddle and appease (Neville Chamberlain) the vicious morons until they start biting you on your rear ends again.

Lol Liberal where I live is the Conservative party.

No one took charge of Hitler including the States. Everyone was generally angered at the French because of the Treaty of Versailles, sympathised with Germany and generally seemed to think that Hitler was simply whipping them into shape. Many even shared his anti Semitic sentiments.
If he didn’t Invade Poland everyone including the States would have stayed out of it.

World Police indeed.

p.s. I visited Sydney twice on R&R from Vietnam during the war. Nice city, nice country! Cheers...

I visited some family in California (My uncle is actually in the Army, which you might find pleasing.) Very friendly people, beautiful place. Good food.
Oh mate, Sydney is my neighbour. Come on down our way and we can have a beer and a laugh!

 

[Spartan]

Nazism ended after WW2, those guys who call them self nazist today are not the same.
As i said i do not have enemies. I do not worry the way you do.

The fact that Norway has armed forces and people on guard 24/7 tells me they don't share your warm and fuzzy feelings.

I do not hate foreign people or different religious people.

Muslim terrorists didn't kill some 3,000 of your people either in just one attack. Part of Norway's sense of security is because the United States is prepared to blunt any possible attacks by Russia on European countries. I assure you that if armed men with considerable weaponry did not exist in Europe, you would be speaking Russian today.

 

[Spirit of Light]

The fact that Norway has armed forces and people on guard 24/7 tells me they don't share your warm and fuzzy feelings.



Muslim terrorists didn't kill some 3,000 of your people either in just one attack. Part of Norway's sense of security is because the United States is prepared to blunt any possible attacks by Russia on European countries. I assure you that if armed men with considerable weaponry did not exist in Europe, you would be speaking Russian today.

1: What the military of Norway does is none of my business, if they wish to be armed 24/7 because of something America created in the 70s when you fought Russia together with Afghanistan, because even then you were afraid of Russia then let the military stay in their bases armed if they like.

2:We had our own terror attack some years ago, but this was of course on a smaller scale, and it was done by a sick Norwegian guy who is now in prison. Should I hate him or other Norwegians because he did an act of Terror? No, I should not.
Do I hate Muslims? No, I do not because I see it is a very small amount of someone claiming to be Muslims who do the evil deeds of terror.

And about Russia. I have Russian friends who I see as good people. But I do not judge them from what some few political people trying to do. I can actually see the difference between greedy political leaders and the common man in the street.

I have nothing to fear from Russia or other nations.

 

[Spartan]

No America was exhausted by WWI, as were we all. No one wanted to get into yet another brawl in European politics. But when our allies sounded the call, we loyally and bravely answered (or perhaps stupidly, depending on your perspective.)
We simply don’t have the weaponry our American warmongering cousins have, we’re a ragtag isolated country in the middle of nowhere, more used to battling the weather and avoiding poisonous animals.
We still answered the call, we stood up and gave it a crack.
We were still suffering the after shock of WWI.
But America, with it’s boastful military prowess, internationally known for absolutely loving to interfere in everyone else’s business, suddenly you get cold feet?
What bout of cowardice overtook you guys? Since when do you give up an opportunity to show off and “help?”
You’ve never really done that before. It was bizarre and you know you probably could have helped prevent needless deaths in the three years it took for you to finally pull your finger out.

Did we not jump up when 9/11 happened and you asked for international support?
Did we leave you guys to sort out your own drama?
No, we gave you our blood. Our sons and daughters. And we did so without hesitation. And we’d do it again in the blink of an eye. Because that’s what allies are supposed to do.
Thanks so much for the protection by the way. You know getting us all killed because you guys kicked another hornet’s nest. We are all very grateful to have died for your causes time and time again.
But we will answer your call regardless.

What are you talking about when you say, "...you probably could have helped prevent needless deaths in the three years it took for you to finally pull your finger out"? If that's talking about entering the war in Europe in WWII, we had a pacifist president back then, and after WWI when America suffered some 400,000 dead and wounded, the mood in the U.S. wasn't strong for another bloodletting.

Also, we don't intervene in "everyone's business." There's normally a bad guy or a bad country raising hell with another country's freedom and peace and we try to help out when we can. America has shed more blood around the world in the cause of other people's freedom and security than anyone else in history. You're free to be the world's cop if you'd prefer. We could use a break.

Lol Liberal where I live is the Conservative party.

No one took charge of Hitler including the States. Everyone was generally angered at the French because of the Treaty of Versailles, sympathised with Germany and generally seemed to think that Hitler was simply whipping them into shape. Many even shared his anti Semitic sentiments.
If he didn’t Invade Poland everyone including the States would have stayed out of it.

World Police indeed.

Hitler declared war on America first. But we were helping out before that, with the Lend Lease Act of sending arms and munitions to England, Russia, etc., and for the most part we were never paid back. Many Americans also volunteered for combat with other nations and served well before we entered WWII.

I visited some family in California (My uncle is actually in the Army, which you might find pleasing.) Very friendly people, beautiful place. Good food.
Oh mate, Sydney is my neighbour. Come on down our way and we can have a beer and a laugh!

Cool. Would love to have a brew with you. Sydney was awesome. The people were nice. The Whiskey a Go Go in Sydney was the place to rock n roll. And your soldiers in Vietnam were brave and excellent fighters. We all made the bloody Commies pay dearly for South Vietnam. Cheers...

 

[Spartan]

1: What the military of Norway does is none of my business, if they wish to be armed 24/7 because of something America created in the 70s when you fought Russia together with Afghanistan, because even then you were afraid of Russia then let the military stay in their bases armed if they like.

2:We had our own terror attack some years ago, but this was of course on a smaller scale, and it was done by a sick Norwegian guy who is now in prison. Should I hate him or other Norwegians because he did an act of Terror? No, I should not.
Do I hate Muslims? No, I do not because I see it is a very small amount of someone claiming to be Muslims who do the evil deeds of terror.

And about Russia. I have Russian friends who I see as good people. But I do not judge them from what some few political people trying to do. I can actually see the difference between greedy political leaders and the common man in the street.

I have nothing to fear from Russia or other nations.

Like I said, I assure you that if armed men with considerable weaponry did not exist and stand ready in Norway and Europe, etc., you would be speaking Russian today. It's naive to think otherwise.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Like I said, I assure you that if armed men with considerable weaponry did not exist in Norway and Europe, etc., you would be speaking Russian today. It's naive to think otherwise.

And?