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Featured Religious Atheists?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by SalixIncendium, Mar 10, 2021.

  1. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Why has the Watchtower then warned it's members against studying the Bible without the aid of Watchtower materials?
    They say it may lead people away from the truth, which means away from belief that the Watchtower is correct.
    And of course we both know that this may be correct because the Watchtower has changed it's doctrines over the years, showing that they have taught what is false in the past and so that they could be doing that now.
    How can they claim then to be the organisation to come to as God's only channel of truth?
     
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  2. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Please quote one single Watchtower that says 'You cannot read the Bible without the Watchtower'.
    What the Watchtower does say is that one cannot study the Bible without the aid of God's people - aka the channel God is using to dispense truth.
    Do you disagree with that statement?

    Then I have to ask, is it any wonder it is hard for you to believe what the Bible teaches?
    Consider just a few, of hundreds of scriptures that show the Lord has appointed his servants the responsibility of teaching the truth to others, and without them, they can never study the Bible on their own, and come to an accurate knowledge of the truth.

    Acts 8:25-40
    30 “Do you actually know what you are reading?” 31 He said: “Really, how could I ever do so unless someone guided me?” So he urged Philip to get on and sit down with him.

    Acts 17:10, 11
    10 Immediately by night the brothers sent both Paul and Silas to Beroea. On arriving, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things [the things the followers of Christ were teaching] were so.

    Romans 10:13-15)
    14 However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”

    Matthew 24:45
    45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?

    These are just a few, but from Matthew to Revelation, the scriptures show without any question, that one could study the Bible on their own, till "thy kingdom come", and be always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth. (2 Timothy 3:7)

    Why? Well the answer is simple.
    Just ask yourself, why did Jesus come to teach the truth, when men had the then known Bible?
    Why did Jesus choose men, and send them out to teach? Matthew 28:19, 20
    Why did Jesus direct the Christian congregation by spirit appointed men in Jerusalem, that took the lead forming congregations, and instructing them?

    Do we not get the answers from the scriptures?
    The Watchtower does not replace the Bible. It directs persons to the Bible, and aids in teaching, just as all our teaching tools do.

    Think of it like Phillip. Modern day Ethiopian Eunuchs riding in their chariots receive a Watchtower, and go, "Ah. Someone to guide me!"
    When they grasp the understanding, they exclaim! "What prevents me getting baptized!"

    Or Paul and Silas. Modern day Boreans examine the scriptures diligently, to see if what the Watchtower says is true.

    The faithful and discrete slave today provide food at the right time, and those sent forth carry the message through the dust, so that that people can hear.

    So do you disagree with using Bible aids, or being a guide - a teacher of God's word?
    Or perhaps you were misinformed about what was being said in the Watchtower.
    We are encouraged to study the Bible along with the publications - the food at the proper time - provided by the faithful slave.

    Of course, I don't agree with you.
    What doctrines has the Watchtower changed over the years?
    Please provide a list, and number them.
    I'll like to have a look.
     
  3. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Who claims that the Watchtower is the faithful and discreet servant, the only channel of truth in this age?
    Only the Watchtower and their loyal followers.
    The change in doctrines and teachings over the years (which all must adhere to at the time until they are changed and then they can probably be disfellowshipped for believing what was taught earlier) would seem to show that God is not directing the Watchtower.
    Development of Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine
    Changed Watchtower Doctrine
     
  4. Suave

    Suave Active Member

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    I used to be Methodist. As such, I was unaware that religious and atheists could ever rightfully belong together in the same sentence.
     
  5. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    I've had quite a few discussions with non-theist Christians. I'm sure they'll be surprised to find out they don't exist.
     
  6. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    No one. You didn't hear that from me either. :Say whatttt? :facepalm:
    Only persons who are misinformed or misguided might think that.
    Hence why it's important we pay attention to how we listen... also the source of our information.

    No... and you would never find that in any Watchtower, or hear it from any loyal servant of Jehovah... or one who follows the directives in the Watchtower.
    Maybe apostates - Enemies of the Lord's belongings.

    So you have no list then?
    The first link, has a list of unchanged doctrines.
    The second link... Well in my opinion, they should consider renaming the website to JWnonFacts The Misrepresented Facts about Jehovah's Witnesses, and a small caption should read... Visit us if you are gullible and want to be misinformed.
    That would fit that site's description, nicely. :D

    A little advice Brian, why not speak of things you know, rather than allow yourself to be fed by wolves? What do wolves do to sheep... and goats?
    Why miss the opportunity to be a sheep, in the fold of the true shepherd.

    jw.org will give you the facts about Jehovah's Witnesses, but it's really up to you, if you want facts, or just information you are looking for.
    Right now, you are seriously lacking in the former. :)

    Edit
    So far you have linked two sites that make clear erroneous statement. What does that say about your sources? Will you continue to search out these obviously contaminated waters, or do you really want a clean water source?
     
  7. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Many people claim to be Christians when they are not.
     
  8. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that the Watchtower is not the faithful and wise slave, the only channel of truth in this age?
    or are you saying that the Watchtower has not or does not teach this?
    or are you being picky about the precise wording I used?
    The Mind Controlling Slave in "Jehovah’s Organization" | Chapter 3 Ministries
    This site shows you some things that the Watchtower has said about being the only ones through whom God is speaking these days and it goes a step further and analyses the wording and what effects this wording could have on JWs, who may not even notice this consciously.
    Interesting site.
    Research - Jehovah's Witnesses claim to speak for God, and be his only channel of communication with earth.
    This site uses the JW online library to show what the WT says about being the only channel of God's truth today.

    Development of Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine
    In this site above there is a little section which gives doctrines unchanged since 1879. If you keep reading the other years you can see how doctrines have come in and been changed over the years.
    Changed Watchtower Doctrine
    In the site above the information seems accurate to me and if you follow the links provided it takes you to the evidence for what they say about each section.

    The sites are talking about Watchtower history and what has happened and been changed in the past.
    They second site also goes into a bit of what the Watchtower has done in changing what previous Watchtowers said in the year books and changing the wording of other old publications. You are clearly not ready for such things.
    I have been looking at the Watchtower on and off now for a long time, almost 50 years, and believe my information is correct. They do supply the evidence which you can check out for yourself even if it may be hard to find older copies of a lot of these publications these days.

    What more do you want than quotes from Watchtower publications on what their teachings and claims are and have been?
    I guess you have only been a JW for a short time and have not noticed the gradual changes which come in to various thing. I know I have seen a few and I am not even a JW.
     
  9. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    this presses the definition of religion to a belief that you act upon
    compared to a belief in God that you act upon

    the later is the common intention and reference

    atheism is not a religion
    there is no 'higher' .......anything

    or?.....no?
     
  10. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Heh... it's almost a requirement for being a Christian that some other group of Christians calls you "not Christian."
     
  11. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Wooooah. :astonished: Looks like you brought the whole sewage Brian.
    First things first. Let it be known that I am not digging into any sewage to try and extract anything.
    That's your choice to wallow in it.
    You and I are conversing. If you have any knowledge - accurate knowledge, that is - of your own, you can lay it out, here, in your own words. Then I will look at it.

    The rules of the forum can help you with this.
    That being said...

    The WT is not the faithful slave. Never was, Never refered to as.

    Please give me one doctrine Brian. Let's start there.
    In fact, let me save you that trouble. Should I? Nah. :p

    50 years outside in the darkness and you are going to tell someone inside they ar not ready fo such things. :laughing:
    Well you are right in one way. No person interested in truth is ready for such things as you are presenting. They certainty haven't benefited you.
    I mean, what's the use of having a Bible and not being able to discuss it with someone who asks you to explain particular scriptures... Or not even being able to carry out what it says - like going to your neighbors and sharing the message Jesus commissioned his followers to preach urgently before the end comes?

    I know what JW teach. Why would I need an outsider to tell me about claims of JW.
    Tell me what the WT teaches that the Bible doesn't, and you've got my ears wide opened. :D

    I've been a Jehovah's Witness almost three times as long as it takes a little 14 year old JW to teach you the basic message of the Bible. :)
     
  12. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if you are playing with words here.
    I did give you accurate knowledge from the Watchtower's own publications that at one stage it was the anointed class that was called the discreet slave and that this was changed to the Governing body. Pastor Russel was for a time called that. You do not seem to want to know these things so why should I post a source for that teaching.
    If you did not want to know, why did you ask for a list of changed doctrines? and why do you think that they are not accurate?

    I have done that on occasion and you shut your ears.
    But really considering the changes to doctrine over the years it is a matter of logic that what was taught at one stage cannot be what the Bible teaches and who knows whether that stage was in the past or now or both?
     
  13. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    You gave me nothing of the sort, Brian.
    You posted a number of links as though this forum is a classroom with students who need to go go to your library and dig for what you claim. Please read forum rules. :)
    I read nothing from you from any Watchtower.

    Did you read my post? Did you understand it? Perhaps not?
    I said I disagreed with you, and asked what doctrines has the Watchtower changed over the years?
    Please provide a list, and number them. I'll like to have a look.
    What did you not understand about that?

    The reason I wanted you to provide a numbered list, was to show you that your list would contain only changes pertaining to understandings related to prophetic utterances, and things not directly identified in scripture. Not to basic doctrine.
    I was hoping we could discuss those things. Why?
    The faithful and discrete slave is not identified as inspired by God, nor 'not prone to error'.
    What does it mean to be faithful and discrete, or wise? That is on the part of the slave - how the slave acts, or is. It depends on their efforts - efforts to understand; efforts to act according to what their master commands and requires.
    They are not immune to discipline. Nor are they perfect. No scripture says that.

    So the body of faithful and loyal representatives of Jesus and Jehovah, have indeed proved themselves faithful and discrete.
    They diligently engage in preaching and teaching about the kingdom of God, as their Lord and master commanded, and continues to direct. "Go. Make disciples of people of all the nations. Teaching them all the things I have commanded you. I will be with you to the end", he says What is this message? "This good news of the kingdom", he says. Where? "In all the inhabited earth", he says. When? "Before the end comes", he says. Why? "As a witness to all the nations", he says. Matthew 24:14 ; Matthew 28:19, 20 See Romans 10:13-15
    What a contrast the producers of the Watchtower are to those claiming to be Jesus' followers. Where are you Brian? What are you doing that give any reason for complaint against the Lord's belongings?

    I believe you honestly think you have shown me.
    Perhaps too, you believe that any change of anything makes something obsolete. Is that what you believe?
    God's people all made errors in their understanding, but when corrected, they changed, or waited on God to correct them.
    I don't consider it reasonable to think that persons would be perfect in understanding, or that the light of truth would would illuminate their path in full brilliance.
    That's not what I see in scripture.
    Take you for example. I believe you can change your view and beliefs to be in line with scripture, and God would accept you, and use you too.

    The important thing, is that we adjust our view, so that these words do not apply to us... "It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines." (Matthew 15:9)
    What doctrines in the Watchtower, do you find, are commandments of men, that go contrary to scripture?

    Basically, your argument is that the Watchtower said things that were not true Bible teachings, and so that may well be the case today.
    My question is, how do we know it was not a true teaching? Who taught that it wasn't? Do you know the answer to those questions.? I'd be interested in hearing from you. :)
     
  14. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    If you read nothing from me from any Watchtower or other JW literature from over the years then you have not read the links. One of them even had links to the JW online library.

    Now you want to treat me like a teacher in a classroom. Trouble is I give you homework that you say you are interested in and you ignore it.

    You are wrong about that. It is basic doctrine which has been changed also.

    We can discuss whatever you want.
    Morally we are all prone to error and failure.
    For an organisation that claims to be the sole channel of truth for this current age the Watchtower has shown over the years that it is not directed by the voice of God and teaches as if it is a group of men who makes mistakes about the meaning of scriptures.

    They have JWs all over the world going out door to door as if that is what God commanded every Christian to do. In the body of Christ each member has his or her gift and job. There is no record keeping of the hours we do as directed by the hierarchy of the church. That is like slave labour to an organisation so it can do it's bookkeeping. That door to door stuff is not necessary for salvation. The work of spreading the gospel is a work of God and as directed by God.

    I guess you can take a horse to water but can't make it drink. That means I have shown you and from your own WT literature and now you are demanding I do it in a certain way that you like.
    Changes to doctrine, complete reversals, makes what was taught in the past not only obsolete but wrong and darkness.
    As I said, if the only channel of truth for this age is doing that, it means it is not being directed by God,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but the strange thing is that it acts as if it is being directed by God, and people obey and are told to obey the Governing body as if it is the voice of God.

    The important thing, is that we adjust our view, so that these words do not apply to us... "It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines." (Matthew 15:9)
    What doctrines in the Watchtower, do you find, are commandments of men, that go contrary to scripture?

    I know logically that if the Watchtower has changed it's teachings on doctrine it means that either the previous teachings were not true or the new ones are not true or they both are not true.
    My basic argument is that you cannot trust an organisation to be God's sole channel of truth when it changes it's teaching.
    When it comes to prophecy, this is usually the easiest way to show changes (even if there have been changes elsewhere). The wrong teachings on prophecy show that this organisation does not feed the sheep what is appropriate at the right times. Thus it logically cannot be the faithful and discreet servant who feeds the sheep food at the proper times.
     
  15. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Shrugs. I tried.

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    Just interrupting out of quick curiousity.

    Isnt this the same as the Church being the aid to help christians understand god's word?

    It's interesting the similarities in tradition between JW and catholics even though they see each other at great distances.
     
  16. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you did not understand what I said, and you have not read the rules.

    As I just stated above...

    Nothing here? Maybe you just want to say things.

    Do you mean men who have come out of darkness into light?
    I have never seen anyone come out of a dark room, and their eyes adjust to the light instantly.
    Those men you speak of, say in the said Watchtowers, that they came out of darkness, They were gradually being adjusted to the light... even with discipline.
    Why that's a problem for you, you would have to work it out with the Lord.

    You are not Jesus Christ.
    You however can decide to do whatever you want, or don't want.
    The scriptures tell us what the lord expects from us, and what he will say to those who do not obey him.

    Who wants to drink sewer water. Maybe some horses will drink anything, but that's a clear indication something is definitely off, with that horse.
    Horses have a very good sense of smell and taste and will refuse to drink – even to the point of dehydration – if their water is polluted, stagnant, or even if their water supply changes abruptly.

    God used imperfect men, from Moses right down to now. He never rejected them for mistakes. In fact he used those mistakes to root out the haughty ones, who rejected his arrangement.

    If that's the way you feel Brian, you are your own man. do your thing.
     
  17. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is exactly what Jesus was saying, when he gave the illustration. Matthew 13:24-30
     
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  18. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Plenty of people come out of darkness into light and gradually learn what the full teaching of the Bible are. Most of them do not claim to be the sole channel of truth to humanity however. Is it a matter of pride or wanting power over people or a misguided sense of their own self worth or what? I don't know, but many people turn to the Watchtower even when they are dedicating themselves to a man made organisation. I hear that dedication to the Governing body is even part of the Baptism ceremony these days for a JW.

    If you feel that is what you must do to be accepted by Jehovah then go ahead. I will not judge you even if you judge me.
    We stand or fall before the Lord and the judgement of men is nothing really. Go ahead and do what men say to do. They have interfered with you conscience to make you think that you are doing wrong if you do not go from door to door. You better do it if it has effected your conscience.



    :)

    It seems that the arrangement was in place since the time of the apostles..............weeds and all.

    We all do our thing and your thing seems to be to ignore what the Watchtower has written and that shows changed doctrines.
    You don't need the approval of the forum rules to read that stuff I posted.
    I guess you are just being wise and listening to your mentors who tell you not to read such things.
    Your own research is good up to a point I guess.
     
  19. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Anyone who does not claim to be the sole channel to humanity, must know why they don't.
    I would not claim to be something I am not. However, if I know I am why would I refuse to declare that I am, unless in this case I don't really believe the Bible, or anything said in it, and maybe I lack faith in God? :shrug:

    Those who know that they are God's representative do what God commands, and they do not hold back because of the talk of those who don't know what the Bible says, or perhaps do, but lack both the will, and spirit to act on what it says.

    One who has God's spirit is moved by his spirit.
    For example...
    Moses said: ‘Jehovah your God will raise up for you from among your brothers a prophet like me. You must listen to whatever he tells you. Indeed, anyone who does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.’ (Acts 3:22, 23)

    Jesus... of himself, he said, "No one comes to the father, except through me."
    What a proud arrogant man to say such a ridiculous thing.. How dare he be so proud.
    Really Brian? Think about it. (John 8:42-47)

    What did God say of his son - the foremost minister, and evangelizer - the pioneer of all pioneers that would follow him?
    (Matthew 17:5) . . .“This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved. Listen to him.”

    Jesus... of his followers, he said, "Wherever anyone does not receive you or listen to your words, on going out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet." (Matthew 10:14)
    What? Who do they think they are? How arrogant.
    Really?

    John... of the apostles, he said, "We originate with God. Whoever comes to know God listens to us; whoever does not originate with God does not listen to us. . . ." (1 John 4:6)
    Well I'll be a monkey's uncle. Who does John think he is, to make such an arrogant claim. Isn't he a man like us, who was once a fisherman... probably, a cuss bird. The audacity of these men uh.

    Paul... of the annointed followers of Christ, he said, "...we are ambassadors substituting for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us. As substitutes for Christ, we beg: “Become reconciled to God.” (2 Corinthians 5:20)
    What craziness am I hearing? Are these men really men of God? Why so proud?

    I could go on Brian, to show you what the Bible says about those who receive God's spirit as his appointed sons, to "declare abroad the excellencies of the One who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light" (1 Peter 2:9)
    Would that mean anything to you though?

    Again Brian, Why do you have a Bible? Would you care to answer that for me. I really would like to hear your answer.
    What's the use of having a Bible if it is of no use to the one possessing it?
    You either follow what it says, or you don't. If you are one, like many here who claim to use it, who believe that these writing are just allegorical, then I can understand why you don't think there are any true followers of Christ on earth, whom he continues to direct by means of spirit.
    To me though, that's one othe the most vile apostate teachings, I have heard. It goes against everything all the Bible writers stated. They wrote these things as historical facts.

    According to scripture, God is the one who calls people out of the darkness, and into the light.
    How does he do it? It says, by people. Isn't that what we read?
    (Matthew 5:14) . . .You are the light of the world. . .
    What did Isaiah prophesy?
    I have also given you as a light of nations, So that my salvation may reach the ends of the earth.” Isaiah 49:6

    Are you saying that if God chose you to be a light to the nations; to declare his message of salvation, that all who listen, may come to the light, you would be afraid to declare yourself a servant and messenger of God?
    Clearly that's not the spirit of Elijah, or Jeremiah, and other prophets. It certainly is not the spirit of Jesus Christ, and his faithful followers.
    Who really is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master (jesus Christ) appointed. Matthew 24:45
    God's spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. Romans 8:16
    They know this. There is no reason to hide it. There is only one sole channel - the faithful and discrete slave. It's not 1000 denominational "Christians".
    People either accept it, or they don't, just as they either accepted Jesus, or they didn't when he claimed to be the son of God, and the light of the world.

    From the scriptures, we see that the Christian congregation was formed for that purpose - a light of salvation.
    The apostasy created a period of darkness. They called it the Dark ages. Glimmers of light allowed person to leave the darkness, but the light of truth did not become fully illuminated, and even as brightly as it shines today, its brilliance is still being reached by those immersed in the light.
    Nevertheless, it is the light. Darkness is everywhere else outside of it.
    I hope you understand that.

    You said you heard that 'dedication to the Governing body is even part of the Baptism ceremony.'
    What more is there to say, after a statement like that. You just outrightly admitted to listening to hearsay, and swallowing it.
    Just as I was saying earlier.
     
  20. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Of course I believe we must obey what Jesus said, we must do.
    I don't believe the Bible was written to be taken and twisted into whatever we want it to be, or to pick and choose the parts we like, and dismiss what we don't like, as so many do today.

    I quoted the scriptures for you, but what did you have to say about them? ... Nothing.
    Those are Jesus' commandments. Not mine, nor the men who publish the Watchtower.
    When Jesus was on earth, he said the fields are white for harvesting, and there was a need for more workers in the field. Beg the master for more workers. John 4:35
    (Matthew 9:35-38) 35 And Jesus set out on a tour of all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and preaching the good news of the Kingdom and curing every sort of disease and every sort of infirmity. 36 On seeing the crowds, he felt pity for them, because they were skinned and thrown about like sheep without a shepherd. 37 Then he said to his disciples: “Yes, the harvest is great, but the workers are few. 38 Therefore, beg the Master of the harvest to send out workers into his harvest.”

    When he left the earth, there were only 120 disciples who remained faithful (Acts 1:15). They however multiplied, as they engaged in the Lord's work of taking the message to all the villages, towns, and to the most distant part of the earth (Acts 1, 2). As far as I know, they did not reach Russia. Nor Putin. Nor did they reach many parts of Africa, Australia, North and South America, etc.
    So maybe you don't think the Lord is interested anymore in spreading the good news to these nation, tribes and people?

    Yes. The men you refer to have said, this is what is to be done, and they preach it too - far and wide.
    They remind me of when Jesus said, this was the reason he came to earth... at least one reason, and said that there was a need for others to join in this work... in other words to do it.

    What those men are doing is proving that they are obedient to the Christ, and I gladly join them... After studying the Bible.
    Do you really think that Jehovah's Witnesses are two year olds, and don't know what Jesus said, because they cannot read? :)
    Come on Brian. You've disappointed me. Not that it surprises me though, based on what I have seen.
    Have you not read... (Matthew 24:14) . . .And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
    Matthew 28:18-20
    18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.
    Acts 20:20

    . . .I did not hold back from telling you any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching you publicly and from house to house.
    Acts 5:42

    .And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus.
    2 Timothy 4:2

    Preach the word; be at it urgently in favorable times and difficult times; reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all patience and art of teaching.

    No Brian. It is not men we are following. It is the faithful and true witness of God.
    I am just being a follower of that one, and the example of the cloud of witnesses.
    (Revelation 12:11) . . .And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death.
    (Revelation 12:17) . . .So the dragon became enraged at the woman and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her offspring, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness concerning Jesus.

    It's of course your choice to not follow those examples, in being obedient to the Christ.
    Did you know, we are commanded to obey Christ's annointed followers, and the appointed men.
    (Hebrews 13:17) . . .Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive,. . .
    You didn't know that? :)
    Take note that everything I am showing you here is scripture. I have not opened a single Watchtower, to quote anything, so please tell me what words of men you think I am following.
    That's the reason this is so lengthy.

    Also, saying you are not judging me, and then saying that I am doing what men say to do, because they have interfered with my conscience to make me think that I are doing wrong if I do not go from door to door, is indeed a contradiction.
    You have judged me. Have you not? Yes you have.
    Are you by any chance referring to Judas, as a weed?
    Putting one's ideas on the text, would only result in twisting the truth of what Jesus said.
    Jesus gave a series of illustrations in Matthew 13. Evidently, all of them related to after his death, and related to the kingdom, with regard to his anointed ones - that would be after the Christian congregation was formed in 33 CE.

    In a way, we all do our own thing, because indeed I have made the doing of God's will "my own thing". In that, I have a burning desire to share the truth with my neighbor, even though most are apathetic. So I really do delight in the work Christ gave his followers to do.

    It seems clear to me, you don't understand what I said, and if you don't understand what the rules say, you would not understand at all.
    Yes. :D Wisdom is the prime thing. Acquire wisdom, acquire understanding (Proverbs 4:5)... and yes. I do listen to the wise servant (Matthew 24:45). After all they are entrusted with the responsibility to provide food at the proper time, and have kept loyal servants of the true God free from the Babylonish teaching, and idolatry in all the false religions making up Babylon the great.
    How can one have a relationship with God, when they teach God dishonoring teachings - like Hellfire, Trinity, Immortal soul, etc?
     
    #100 nPeace, Mar 26, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2021
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