Religions/cults that suppress free speech

[Nakosis]

I think that is an interesting point. And it can be difficult to know, who has the correct view and argument, especially for those who have not studied much. What do you think is the correct way to see who has the right opinion, or view, or argument?

I usually start out assuming everyone is wrong. And wait to be convinced otherwise.

People have convinced me, otherwise. I suppose I'm skeptical as long as it seems reasonable to do so.
What seems reasonable to you may differ.

 

[Left Coast]

Not the post, the poll question.
Ignoracy...

It really is a perfect encapsulation of the reasoning behind this whole thread.

Me personally, I hate freedom of speech. If everyone just shut up and did what I said, we'd have many fewer problems in the world.

 

[Secret Chief]

It really is a perfect encapsulation of the reasoning behind this whole thread.

Me personally, I hate freedom of speech. If everyone just shut up and did what I said, we'd have many fewer problems in the world.

But how would you know you were wrong if you never listened to me? Duh.

 

[Left Coast]

But how would you know you were wrong if you never listened to me? Duh.

Thats a good point, it should be a two tiered approval system with you and me at the top.

 

[Secret Chief]

Thats a good point, it should be a two tiered approval system with you and me at the top.

Done. You have been.

 

[syo]

Do you know a religion or cult that suppresses free speech?

Christianity.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Christianity.

And some sects more so than others.

 

[Laika]

Do you know a religion or cult that suppresses free speech?

If cult leader would say to you, "we reduce ignorance by not allowing all to speak", would you think it is reasonable or not?

I think limiting free speech increases ignorance, because then people will know less. Do you agree with this, or is there some good reason to think the opposite?

Freedom of Speech can be a good thing, but it depends on how you use it. I think most religions include a reference to condemning people telling lies for example and that is understandable given the damage they can do in our relationships.

Prohibiting Blasphemy isn't something I would enforce, but you can understand the need to treat certain objects or subjects with humility and reverence, even when you disagree with them. False beliefs can have as much power to influence behaviour as the truth simply for being believed. You can appreciate the effect and meaning a person's beliefs may have on them without agreeing with it. A certain level of compliance is polite, so long as it specific to a particular situation (e.g. going in to a temple) and doesn't cause you or anyone else harm.

I think a religious or cult leader can make a case that "less is more" and that we have a tendency to abuse our freedom of speech by treating our words, our thoughts and our ideas too casually. A certain "economy" of speech, of choosing your words carefully, on speaking on subjects which you only have some knowledge or interest in and arguing out your positions, would seem fairly justified. It is far too easy to criticise when you understand very little, but being precise and accurate in your criticism so as to make them valuable and accessible to those who they are directed at is much, much harder.

I wouldn't put these down as any legal limits on free speech. But there are always informal rules and customs where society enforces it's share of taboos based on a shared understanding of what is appropriate. they change over time to suit the context but they are always there. Absolute freedom of speech doesn't exist, even in law, because society has to regulate and prevent conflicts that arise. But generally it is better for people to have the freedom to "agree to disagree" and to voice dissent, than not to be allowed the chance at all.

[As for the Poll, I'm going to stick my neck out and vote that freedom of speech does increase ignorance (or at least allow people to exchange ignorant and misinformed opinions) as that is true in at least some circumstances.]

 

[syo]

limiting free speech increases ignorance

Yup.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Do you know a religion or cult that suppresses free speech?

If cult leader would say to you, "we reduce ignorance by not allowing all to speak", would you think it is reasonable or not?

I think limiting free speech increases ignorance, because then people will know less. Do you agree with this, or is there some good reason to think the opposite?

Ignoracy is what I am going to do to this thread.

I think.

Maybe?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If cult leader would say to you, "we reduce ignorance by not allowing all to speak", would you think it is reasonable or not?

Did someone say this to you?

 

[YoursTrue]

I don’t think it can be called free, if there are limits. And I understand that if people are free to speak, it is possible that they say also say wrong things. However, I think bigger problem is, if wrong ideas can’t be heard, because then no one can correct them, explain why they are wrong. I think it is like sweeping trash under the carpet and hoping they will never be seen again. I think it only makes things worse, because then the wrong ideas spread “under the carpet” and can eventually cause even bigger mess, because no one could have corrected the bad ideas.

I would think a parent would be concerned if his child is standing near an open window threatening to jump out. Chldren may not be too free, but perhaps older ones are free to take a leap out a window. Maybe thinking they can fly. I know of an account during the LSD Timothy Leary days where someone literally jumped, they had freedom I suppose. They were also high on LSD.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I couldn't answer your poll. On the one hand, suppressing free speech CAN increase ignorance, since how is the truth supposed to rise to the surface if people don't discuss it openly? But on the other hand, I have seen the horrendous damage that is done by democratically allowing people in social media platform to say whatever they want. We have a whole generation of people who are inclined to any number of paranoid conspiracy theories. And its not all just intellectual. There are for example, people who are afraid to become vaccinated because of the misinformation that proliferates online, putting themselves and others in risk of suffering and death. I am absolutely discouraged at just how irrational people are, when not guided by the wiser elements of society. It used to be that we had gatekeepers -- the media would filter out the ridiculous stories and suggestions. This is all God. Heaven help us.

 

[firedragon]

Do you know a religion or cult that suppresses free speech?

If cult leader would say to you, "we reduce ignorance by not allowing all to speak", would you think it is reasonable or not?

I think limiting free speech increases ignorance, because then people will know less. Do you agree with this, or is there some good reason to think the opposite?

Yes. Stalin, Mao, Dais, LTTE, are some of the most well known. I think its absolutely unreasonable. I do think that limiting free speech increases ignorance, but maybe it will increase knowledge in a particular field. E.g. Easier methods for mass murder, divide and conquer, manufacturing submarines in the back yard, manipulating media, controlling masses with out murder, brainwashing techniques, etc

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Do you know a religion or cult that suppresses free speech?

I think most religions do.

There are certainly exceptions, but it's very common for religions to dictate what speech - and even thought - is appropriate.

By itself this wouldn't suppress anyone's free speech. There's not necessarily an infringement on freedom when a voluntary organization that people are free to leave sets rules for its members.

The problem is that in many religions, members aren't free to leave. They're often threatened with horrible consequences - sometimes worse than death - for leaving. They also often build themselves into every aspect of a person's life so that leaving the group would mean that the member would lose their entire support network.

I would say that even many religious groups normally considered liberal or moderate suppress free speech this way.

 

[SalixIncendium]

@1213 ~ If I'm free to tell my developing child that 2+2=3 and exercise that freedom, tell me: does this increase or decrease ignorance?

 

[1213]

@1213 ~ If I'm free to tell my developing child that 2+2=3 and exercise that freedom, tell me: does this increase or decrease ignorance?

Because it would lead to situation where someone corrects it, I think it would lead to more information and therefore decrease ignorance. If you would not have the right to say it, no one would know you have such idea and no one could correct it.

 

[1213]

I think most religions do.
...The problem is that in many religions, members aren't free to leave. They're often threatened with horrible consequences - sometimes worse than death - for leaving. They also often build themselves into every aspect of a person's life so that leaving the group would mean that the member would lose their entire support network.

I would say that even many religious groups normally considered liberal or moderate suppress free speech this way.

I believe there are situations even in Christian religious groups when freedom of speech, or asking questions is not accepted. I think it is very wrong and bad and the cause for why many leave the religion. If people are not allowed to speak, it is also probably that they don’t learn and if they don’t learn, it is easy to reject the system. But, I understand that the questions are not nice, if person can’t answer to them. In such situation it is easier to just silence everyone. But, in Christian group I think it is wrong also because it is said:

…always be ready to give an answer to everyone who asks you a reason concerning the hope that is in you, with humility…
1 Pet. 3:15

 

[1213]

I would think a parent would be concerned if his child is standing near an open window threatening to jump out. Chldren may not be too free, but perhaps older ones are free to take a leap out a window. Maybe thinking they can fly. I know of an account during the LSD Timothy Leary days where someone literally jumped, they had freedom I suppose. They were also high on LSD.

Sorry, I don't see how this is connected to freedom of speech.

 

[1213]

Ignoracy is what I am going to do to this thread.

Actually I am beginning to like the word, because I think western world was previously democracy, now it looks more like ignoracy.