Religions actively employ the cycle of abuse.

[infrabenji]

I feel there are holes also. I'm just trying to fill in the gaps so that we can have the potential for real conversation out of this.

Sure. That sounds great. Where do you think there are gaps? And how best should we go about closing them so we can have a fruitful and hopefully non triggering dialogue.

 

[Vinayaka]

Thanks for your input. I haven’t levied an accusation that all religious people are a specific way but that some religious people behave in a particular way that causes harm to others. Much in the same way that an abuser in a narcissistic relationship causes harm to their partner.

Yes, of course. I think 'some' is better than 'religious people frequently' and I concur with this later statement. What's the solution, other than hurling accusations.

Personally, I think leaders who don't report it to the legal authorities are just as guilty as the abuser, as they're enabling, by not reporting. I'd also like to know what you mean specifically by 'cycle of abuse'?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Sure. That sounds great. Where do you think there are gaps? And how best should we go about closing them so we can have a fruitful and hopefully non triggering dialogue.

I felt that the OP presented many fine details that may require more work conveying the nuances of things. Additional explanations of concepts may also be needed.

 

[infrabenji]

Yes, of course. I think 'some' is better than 'religious people frequently' and I concur with this later statement. What's the solution, other than hurling accusations.

Personally, I think leaders who don't report it to the legal authorities are just as guilty as the abuser, as they're enabling, by not reporting. I'd also like to know what you mean specifically by 'cycle of abuse'?

I agree with you wholeheartedly. “The cycle of abuse was first theorized by Dr. Lenore Walker, in 1979. This was after interviewing 1,500 women who were survivors of domestic violence. What she found out was that although the women narrated different stories, the stories shared a similar pattern”. Tension building, incident, reconciliation, and calm.

 

[Earthtank]

I believe religious people frequently employ the cycle of abuse as a method for indoctrination and inculcating unquestioning devotion. I feel there is a strong parallel between indoctrination and the cycle of abuse. I have confidence that this practice causes emotional, physical, and psychological damage to the victim. I believe the abuse manifests in different forms such as identity loss, guilt syndrome, stygiophobia, death anxiety, sexual repression, compulsivity, self blame, and more. I believe victims often, actively and unknowingly, participate in their own abuse. I also believe these abuses have deleterious long term impacts for the victim and can be correlated to higher levels of depression, anxiety, self deception, denial, somatic concerns, dissociative patterns, etc. Do you agree or disagree that this can be the case? I’d like to hear your thoughts. Thanks in advance for everyone’s insight.

Edit: The generalization is intentional as I perceive it may be a sensitive subject for many religious people. I don’t want to isolate anyone or make any one group feel singled out.

Would you mind being specific to a particular religion and scenario? Because such an over generalization really is nothing more than opinion that holds no weight, which is obvious by the constant "I believe". Adding specific details can help the readers understand where you are coming and engage in meaningful discourse (if that's your goal) as opposed to just ignoring the baseless claims.

 

[JustGeorge]

@infrabenji , this abuse can happen with more than just religious folks. I had the tar bullied out of my by a group of atheists when I was in my late 20s/early 30s.

Honestly, I think it comes from a group mindset that pushes the idea that they are superior. No group is free from the idea that this could happen within it.

 

[PureX]

People interpret their religions according to their own needs and desires. One person may interpret it as justification for abuse, while another interprets that same religion as condemning abuse. Religions don't abuse people, people abuse people. Religions just get used as the excuse.

 

[Vinayaka]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. “The cycle of abuse was first theorized by Dr. Lenore Walker, in 1979. This was after interviewing 1,500 women who were survivors of domestic violence. What she found out was that although the women narrated different stories, the stories shared a similar pattern”. Tension building, incident, reconciliation, and calm.

Thank you for clarifying which cycle you meant. It's the one within individual relationships, not the one passed on from generation to generations.

My Guru, within our small Hindu congregation, gave the abuser one chance. He assigned a fairly heavy penance, and told the person to think very hard about whether or not they should be doing this, and how it might affect his future, his job, his relationship. At the same time he made it clear to the victim that if he does it again, leave him. Get to a safe place, and don't go back. I only knew of one case personally, and he never did it again.

I think we need strong leadership. But of course it's tricky, as so much goes on beyond closed doors. Within some religions and cultures, it's practically a given, like corporal punishment of children. Sometimes it's not power abuse, but more just a marital spat the gets carried away by emotion. Life can be stressful all around some days.

I also don't think it's limited to religious people at all.

 

[infrabenji]

@infrabenji , this abuse can happen with more than just religious folks. I had the tar bullied out of my by a group of atheists when I was in my late 20s/early 30s.

Honestly, I think it comes from a group mindset that pushes the idea that they are superior. No group is free from the idea that this could happen within it.

Certainly, and I agree. My goal isn’t to single out religion but to address the obvious need within religious groups to help people identify when they are being abused and hopefully through dialogue about the issue help people find a way out of it. I’m sorry you were bullied by atheists. I as an atheist find myself often bullied or treated with contempt by religious people. But I think we can both agree that participating in our own abuse, whether by religious people or atheists, is a form of self harm.

 

[Vinayaka]

My goal isn’t to single out religion but to address the obvious need within religious groups to help people identify when they are being abused and hopefully through dialogue about the issue help people find a way out of it.

But you did. It's the first word in the title. There is an obvious need in all of society. edited to add ... Dr. Walker never mentioned religion as a factor. Cycle of abuse - Wikipedia

 

[infrabenji]

But you did. It's the first word in the title. There is an obvious need in all of society.

Oh I see what you’re saying. I agree it could be worded better if I was smarter and the title heading space allowed for more characters. Otherwise, I see how it looks intentionally inflammatory. Maybe that’s a good thing? It may draw people into the discussion and help further our understanding.

 

[Mister Emu]

I think you err greatly by saying "actively", as though the intent is to abuse. When for most/all legitimate religious groups any psychological harm is an unintended consequence of teaching things they believe to be true.

I also believe these abuses have deleterious long term impacts for the victim and can be correlated to higher levels of depression

Do you have any source for your belief? Studies consistently show that religious people self report higher levels of happiness. Also, strong religious belief has been shown to be a strong resiliency factor against developing depression in high risk groups.

 

[Vinayaka]

Oh I see what you’re saying. I agree it could be worded better if I was smarter and the title heading space allowed for more characters. Otherwise, I see how it looks intentionally inflammatory. Maybe that’s a good thing? It may draw people into the discussion and help further our understanding.

There were better subforums to put it in than 'religious debates'. The 'social world' subsection would have been better, in my view. It's not a religious debate at all, unless you're truly trying to insinuate that it's a problem to do with religion, and only religion, which I don't think you are.

 

[infrabenji]

But you did. It's the first word in the title. There is an obvious need in all of society. edited to add ... Dr. Walker never mentioned religion as a factor. Cycle of abuse - Wikipedia

That’s true. I’m, as stated, drawing a parallel based on observation between the cycle of abuse and abuses found in religious groups.

 

[Vinayaka]

That’s true. I’m, as stated, drawing a parallel based on observation between the cycle of abuse and abuses found in religious groups.

If you're drawing that parallel, and ignoring the simple fact that it's a societal problem in all cultures, all peoples, then I will be out. As I said, Dr. Walker didn't make that parallel, but worked on understanding it from a human perspective.

 

[JustGeorge]

Certainly, and I agree. My goal isn’t to single out religion but to address the obvious need within religious groups to help people identify when they are being abused and hopefully through dialogue about the issue help people find a way out of it. I’m sorry you were bullied by atheists. I as an atheist find myself often bullied or treated with contempt by religious people. But I think we can both agree that participating in our own abuse, whether by religious people or atheists, is a form of self harm.

I think we could extend this to 'groups' in general. I know where you're coming from when you say you're treated with "contempt by religious people". I get that, too... I'm a non Christian in an area that contains many people who don't look at people from other faiths any better than they look at someone of non faith, but I still think it goes deeper than that.

I was once excluded from a parenting group because I and my kids were a bit too different(my kids are on the spectrum, and I can be a bit quiet). My best friend growing up was often bullied by other Black kids(she was Black herself) because she wasn't "acting Black enough"(she liked heavy metal and goth clothes). So really, I think the abuse you speak of can be found anywhere.

I think it comes down to building the self confidence of our peers, whether they be atheist or not. Even Christians can suffer abuse at the hands of other Christians, and while they would be best exiting the group they're in, they may want to keep ties with their religion. If we see someone's down and hurting, just help the best we can.

 

[an anarchist]

I believe religious people frequently employ the cycle of abuse as a method for indoctrination and inculcating unquestioning devotion. I feel there is a strong parallel between indoctrination and the cycle of abuse. I have confidence that this practice causes emotional, physical, and psychological damage to the victim. I believe the abuse manifests in different forms such as identity loss, guilt syndrome, stygiophobia, death anxiety, sexual repression, compulsivity, self blame, and more. I believe victims often, actively and unknowingly, participate in their own abuse. I also believe these abuses have deleterious long term impacts for the victim and can be correlated to higher levels of depression, anxiety, self deception, denial, somatic concerns, dissociative patterns, etc. Do you agree or disagree that this can be the case? I’d like to hear your thoughts. Thanks in advance for everyone’s insight.

Edit: The generalization is intentional as I perceive it may be a sensitive subject for many religious people. I don’t want to isolate anyone or make any one group feel singled out.

I don’t mean to go off topic by bringing the topic of the state up.
I believe, in your OP, if you replace “religious people” with “statists” it’ll be equally true.
The sacred texts of religions are not abusive in any way.
I agree that religious organizations may be abusive and manipulative, often times financially motivated. Though they claim to be representatives of the sacred texts, one should not view them as such.
Ruling governments and fellow statists manipulate people into literal Stockholm syndrome, IMO. Also, they manipulate people into being desensitized sociopathic homicidal participants. Americans just shrug at the fact that half of their tax money goes to the military/war/atrocities. If they aren’t sociopathic about it (simply not caring or realizing the amount of suffering the American military brings on the world and their part in funding them) they are psychotic about. Rabid supporters of our war effort.
This is a result of the ruling government abusing and manipulating the general populace at a massive scale. They use religions and churches to propagate the shared Stockholm syndrome.
Just, you hold religions to this scrutiny, calling them abusers. Yet the state stands right next to them, arguably being much more abusive to everyone. Religious texts are pure and solely focus on propagating peace and love.

 

[infrabenji]

I think you err greatly by saying "actively", as though the intent is to abuse. When for most/all legitimate religious groups any psychological harm is an unintended consequence of teaching things they believe to be true.

Do you have any source for your belief? Studies consistently show that religious people self report higher levels of happiness. Also, strong religious belief has been shown to be a strong resiliency factor against developing depression in high risk groups.

Many people in religious groups do actively abuse others using indoctrination and unquestioning faith. I don’t believe anyone would honestly question that whether it’s intentional or not on the part of the abuser. People who are the subject of abuse, religious or otherwise, are shown to have higher levels of depression, anxiety, etc. People who are in the cycle of abuse may also report high levels of happiness as it is common for the victim to be unaware of the abuse.

 

[infrabenji]

I don’t mean to go off topic by bringing the topic of the state up.
I believe, in your OP, if you replace “religious people” with “statists” it’ll be equally true.
The sacred texts of religions are not abusive in any way.
I agree that religious organizations may be abusive and manipulative, often times financially motivated. Though they claim to be representatives of the sacred texts, one should not view them as such.
Ruling governments and fellow statists manipulate people into literal Stockholm syndrome, IMO. Also, they manipulate people into being desensitized sociopathic homicidal participants. Americans just shrug at the fact that half of their tax money goes to the military/war/atrocities. If they aren’t sociopathic about it (simply not caring or realizing the amount of suffering the American military brings on the world and their part in funding them) they are psychotic about. Rabid supporters of our war effort.
This is a result of the ruling government abusing and manipulating the general populace at a massive scale. They use religions and churches to propagate the shared Stockholm syndrome.
Just, you hold religions to this scrutiny, calling them abusers. Yet the state stands right next to them, arguably being much more abusive to everyone. Religious texts are pure and solely focus on propagating peace and love.

I totally agree. I wish they had a button that just said true lol.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The generalization is intentional as I perceive it may be a sensitive subject for many religious people. I don’t want to isolate anyone or make any one group feel singled out.

What is religion?