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Religion, Racial Harmony and Racism

joe1776

Well-Known Member
That's open to debate...
In New York City circa 1900, the Jewish mobs, the Irish mobs and the Italian mobs competed for control of the rackets. The Italians won. It wasn't that they were tougher. They won because they organized in a hierarchy modeled after the Mafia in Sicily.

No doubt I would disagree with it :D
If you agreed, you would shock and disappoint the hell out of me.:)
 

Vee

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
It is racism I wish to address in this thread. To what extent has racism become a barrier towards lasting peace between people? If you feel racism remains a significant issue, to what extent has your religion or worldview brought peoples of all races together as brothers and sisters? Are you able to acknowledge times where you world view has fallen far from these ideals and instead fuelled division and promoted racism?

Very good questions.
When we judge people we don't know based on things like the place where they were born, the color of their skin, the language they speak or their gender, we are very simply being short-minded and unfair.
We are in 2019 and even though we came a long way in terms of knowledge, many people still refuse to see the obvious: we are all human, and we're not that different from each other. We all have the same needs, the same desires and often the same goals. But many still prefer the "us versus them" mentality, maybe because it's much easier to blame others for whatever is wrong than to look in a mirror and take responsibility.
Jehovah's Witnesses believe in the Bible, and the Bible teaches that God is not partial (Acts 10:34,35). So, if we follow the principle of impartiality, we treat everyone fairly, according to the kind of person they are.
Is it always easy? Of course not, but that's because we're surrounded by propaganda and lies, spread by people with personal agendas. Blaming particular groups of people for whatever issues are going on in the world is a brilliant strategy. While people are busy believing all the nonsense being told and hating someone they've never met and know nothing about, the ones who are truly causing those problems are free to continue destroying economies, the earth and millions of lives.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I wonder whether such mass murders represent an increase in racism or rather reflect a trend in how people driven to the brink of desperation are choosing to vent their frustration. I remember when it was all about "going postal" and the mass murders were about retaliation at your place of work. That happened again recently in the US.

Desperate homicidal individuals develop a narrative of victimization before they become the great victimizers. I dont think they represent so much a trend in the "cause" they claim to represent as they have seized on a narrative that they are hearing a lot.

Maybe racist thoughts are being allowed to surface more but those who are truly fearful of others arent more numerous. There are new and inventive ways these days for people to circumvent the reality/memory of historical oppression by a dominant group and turn it into a narrative of persecution of the historical dominators. Economic concerns may be being given a fresh scapegoat as once dominant classes of people are seeing their relative numbers diminish. And th he fact of non-white, non-male political leaders further causes psychological concern for those who used to rest comforted by their safety within their own kind.

Racism is a consequence of the satisfaction of a deep psychological need. It is a short cut way of creating a focus for ones personal and collective problems onto another collective. Only an economically balanced society that can recognize and address individuals who for whatever reason (external or internal) are being driven to homicidal desperation can help to reduce the stressors that might motivate such acts.

Religion is part of the problem and the solution. Religions reach is multi-cultural in the end I think inspite of the political powers within religions that have used racism as a tool to deflect its adherents from the real economic and political issues they were facing.

Thank you for your thoughtful post.

There are a number of trends in Western communities and throughout the world that are clear. One is the growing disparity between the wealthy and the poor worldwide. There is a significant minority who are either unemployed, underemployed or underpaid. Amongst this group are those who externalise or blame their circumstances on others. A common narrative is that migrants are taking their jobs or foreign powers are responsible for their plight and struggle in life.

Christianity has been struggling over the twentieth century for a narrative that is harmony with the modern world. Science has challenged long held cherished beliefs. Human rights issues have shaken Christianity to the core. Regardless, some of the Christian community has adapted to the twenty first century whlle others have languished. OTOH Islam has been a religion of more underdeveloped countries. Progress has often lagged behind the West and some parts of Islam make the Christian fundamentalists progressive by contrast. Muslims and some of the racial groups often associated with Muslims such as Arabs and Persians have become vilified. Some politicians and religious leaders have exploited the resentment and fears of their followers.

I think we are mostly in agreement.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Not all, householder Adrian, and to pull those into the mud of which many think that pulling all Sublime into it solves that, enriching their households by it, might be not that wise as to get ride of it by your self, giving into those already out of it, leave the caught behind.

I'm not entirely certain what your point is and suspect there are cultural barriers.

I feel moved to share the story of the Golden Buddha.

The Story of the Golden Buddha
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
That was a good, concise summary of the past 100 years.

Compared to my grandparents' generation, I think society has progressed a great deal. My grandparents were racist, although they weren't hateful or malicious about it. They just had some rather stereotypical, ignorant ideas, but they still tried to be nice. My parents' generation was probably more progressive in this area, as they came of age after WW2 when racism and nationalism were more directly challenged.

By the time I was born (early 1960s), the Civil Rights movement was in full swing, and massive changes were taking place all across society. All of the old ideas were falling into disrepute, and it appeared as if society was heading in a new direction where we could look forward to a better and brighter future for all. Some of these hopes were somewhat tempered and dampened by the Vietnam War, the prospects of nuclear war, and a general feeling of unease and cynicism about the "establishment."

A lot of changes did occur, but similar to the Postbellum era, there was some level of pushback and a lack of follow-through. One thing about progressivism is that it takes continual work and effort, but by the 1970s, few people wanted to do that anymore. Especially since there had been measurable progress in civil rights, as well as the end of the Vietnam War and the fall of Nixon.

It seems that 70s started off with a great deal of tumult, but then, there seemed to be this feeling of "Well, we've done our job, and we were successful; now it's time to party!" The era of widespread protest and political activism was pretty much over by the time I reached my teen years, when Carter was president.

Even my grandparents and many conservatives I knew at the time were accepting of the changes in society in terms of racial equality, gender equality - or at least, they didn't see any point in actively fighting against it. However, they also ostensibly had this expectation that the oppressed classes would now be satisfied, content, and peaceable. My grandfather and other members of my family would say things like "Well, they have their civil rights now, so they should be happy. What are they still complaining about?"

Concurrent with this general timeframe was a sharp rise in the crime rate, economic malaise, teenage angst (which I can attest to personally), and an even greater sense of cynicism and downright pessimism. Ideas which are now generally debunked as conspiracy theories were considered "common knowledge" back then. There was also a great deal of fear - fear of crime, fear of pollution, fear of nuclear war, fear of overpopulation, fear that the world is going to run out of oil or other vital resources.

Even the idea of massive political movements seemed untenable because no one was really into that anymore, not like during the 60s. By the late 70s, people were more into hedonism, escapism, and fantasy - because reality was just too much of a bummer. I think that's part of what led America more towards the right and into the era of Reagan, who had an apparent army of robotic followers and their own brand of escapist fantasy: "It's morning in America. Death to the Evil Empire and the godless Communists!"

Racism was always there all along, yet it seemed to take on different forms. There weren't that many public displays of Klansmen or Nazis in brown shirts - as they seemed few and far between. (Even David Duke put on a suit and tie and called himself a "conservative.") Anyone who made any racist statements were publicly lambasted and skewered in the media, which gave people the impression that racism was all but ended. Political Correctness also came about during the Reagan era, which I would compare to putting lipstick on a pig. The whole thing seemed a contrivance to create the illusion of politeness and civility; a false public image to hide something more ugly and odious behind the scenes.

But this was also an era fueled by cocaine, unrestrained consumerism, unapologetic greed, and an overall sense of nihilistic hedonism which made the 60s and 70s look like choir practice. There may have still been a latent sense of unease and fear of the future, but it was overshadowed by the idea of "living for today" and "who cares what happens tomorrow?" One of the popular songs of the 80s was "Don't Worry, Be Happy." That song was co-opted by the Reagan-Bush team and became the predominant theme of American conservatism, which even attracted a large number of crossover Democrats.

The intellectualism of the 60s had given way to more vacuous, superficial attitudes.

Our economy was sluggish, even while the Reaganites were crowing about how things were idyllic. People became enamored with the "lifestyles of the rich and famous" and somehow forgot about all those still languishing in poverty. They also didn't notice that our once-great industrial machine was turning into a rust belt, characterized by factories being shuttered and reopened overseas for its cheap labor.

When the Cold War ended, people were expecting some sort of "peace dividend" which never really materialized in earnest. Sure, there's been a lot of talk of peace and cooperation and a "new world order." I remember a popular bumper sticker of the time was "visualize world peace," as if "visualizing" was all we had to do.

That goes back to my earlier point about progressivism requiring continuous work and effort, yet few people really wanted to do the work.

People were more content to wrap themselves up in their own little escapist consumerist bubbles. This was also true for a large number of suburban, middle to upper class liberals - who still may have believed many of the same high-minded ideals of the 60s, but had become chained to a materialistic, consumerist, luxury lifestyle which compelled them to compromise their principles. But as long as they take their meds and remain cocooned in their bubble, they've been largely content and pacified.

If there is a rise in racism and nationalism as of late, it could be because people who should have been minding the store have gotten too complacent and politically lazy - not to mention too wrapped up in their narcissistic luxuries to really care that much about their fellow human being. Even when they say all the things that might seem right to liberals and progressives, their words ring hollow and mechanical - as if they don't really believe it anymore.

What we're seeing today is the culmination of a number of great mistakes and wrong-headed choices we made, as a country. A lot of things that we knew about and could have addressed 50 years ago have been put on the back burner for too long. We should have done more and worked harder to achieve the cooperative, harmonious, and peaceful world that many of us long for. Instead, we just got lost.

Thanks for your post. We were both born in the early 60s so have had similar experiences albeit in different countries. The apathy of our generation perplexes me at times. What you say makes perfect sense and I enjoyed reading your post.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
No, no. His identity is very important to him. He is a Bahai, follower of a 19th Century manifestation of 'One God', Allah, with none other coming for the next 600 years. The revelation of this manifestation makes the revelations of all former manifestations of Allah - Moses, Zoroaster, Jesus, Mohammad, Krishna, Buddha, etc., redundant. ;)

Non-Hindus should take care not to misrepresent Hinduism as Hindus should take care not to misrepresent non-Hindus.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
It is racism I wish to address in this thread. To what extent has racism become a barrier towards lasting peace between people? If you feel racism remains a significant issue, to what extent has your religion or worldview brought peoples of all races together as brothers and sisters? Are you able to acknowledge times where you world view has fallen far from these ideals and instead fuelled division and promoted racism?

I don't think I can really agree that racism is on the rise again.
At the very least, it is not the same kind of racism of the past. I don't think that you could find any significant support any more in any western nation for things like apartheid for example...

I think a lot of times, nationalism is being mistaken for racism.

There's a political party in my country called Vlaams Belang. They are widely known for being racist. And some of them surely are very racist. But most of them, are actually very nationalistic. Specific remarks they then make about "immigrants", and the "nicknames" they use to refer to various nationalities, are easily mistaken for racism. Those nicknames and denegrating remarks surely will sometimes refer to ethnic characteristics. But the actual hate is not really concerning ethnicity. It concerns culture, economics, nationality,...

They are also anti-european. They hate it that Polish construction workers come here and actually work harder then Belgian construction workers. The Polish ones come from a life of relative poverty and hard work. They aren't spoiled middle class people like most Belgians. Their work ethics are just different and more appealing to customers. And they are cheaper as well. So they'll make disgusting remarks about Polish people as well - which are as caucasian as they are themselves.

So I don't think this new wave of "divisive" ideology can be filed under racism. It might be some part of it, but not the kind of racism we've seen before. It's not pure racism. There's a lot more involved, coming from nationalism primarily, it seems to me.


At least, that's how it feels like in Belgium.
Based on the (admitedly 'little') that I know of politics in other countries, I think I can extrapolate that to the rest of the world as well. It smells like the same kind of trend.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't think I can really agree that racism is on the rise again.
At the very least, it is not the same kind of racism of the past. I don't think that you could find any significant support any more in any western nation for things like apartheid for example...

I think a lot of times, nationalism is being mistaken for racism.

There's a political party in my country called Vlaams Belang. They are widely known for being racist. And some of them surely are very racist. But most of them, are actually very nationalistic. Specific remarks they then make about "immigrants", and the "nicknames" they use to refer to various nationalities, are easily mistaken for racism. Those nicknames and denegrating remarks surely will sometimes refer to ethnic characteristics. But the actual hate is not really concerning ethnicity. It concerns culture, economics, nationality,...

They are also anti-european. They hate it that Polish construction workers come here and actually work harder then Belgian construction workers. The Polish ones come from a life of relative poverty and hard work. They aren't spoiled middle class people like most Belgians. Their work ethics are just different and more appealing to customers. And they are cheaper as well. So they'll make disgusting remarks about Polish people as well - which are as caucasian as they are themselves.

So I don't think this new wave of "divisive" ideology can be filed under racism. It might be some part of it, but not the kind of racism we've seen before. It's not pure racism. There's a lot more involved, coming from nationalism primarily, it seems to me.


At least, that's how it feels like in Belgium.
Based on the (admitedly 'little') that I know of politics in other countries, I think I can extrapolate that to the rest of the world as well. It smells like the same kind of trend.

What you describe in your country is certainly a trend of many countries in the West. I agree that its not pure racism but instead an us and them ideology where race is one aspect along with other factors such as nationalism, immigration, religion and culture. While it is not the same forms of racism we witnessed earlier in the twentieth century, it appears no less virulent as a force for dividing and polarising people.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Very good questions.
When we judge people we don't know based on things like the place where they were born, the color of their skin, the language they speak or their gender, we are very simply being short-minded and unfair.
We are in 2019 and even though we came a long way in terms of knowledge, many people still refuse to see the obvious: we are all human, and we're not that different from each other. We all have the same needs, the same desires and often the same goals. But many still prefer the "us versus them" mentality, maybe because it's much easier to blame others for whatever is wrong than to look in a mirror and take responsibility.
Jehovah's Witnesses believe in the Bible, and the Bible teaches that God is not partial (Acts 10:34,35). So, if we follow the principle of impartiality, we treat everyone fairly, according to the kind of person they are.
Is it always easy? Of course not, but that's because we're surrounded by propaganda and lies, spread by people with personal agendas. Blaming particular groups of people for whatever issues are going on in the world is a brilliant strategy. While people are busy believing all the nonsense being told and hating someone they've never met and know nothing about, the ones who are truly causing those problems are free to continue destroying economies, the earth and millions of lives.

Sorry, but the rest of us do not look to a cult of
ignorance for intelligent guidance.
 
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