Religion in space - what will it look like?

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I got the idea for this thread from @RedStorm's thread on which religions talk about space. Thanks, Redstorm, for sparking this one!

Red's thread got me thinking: what will human religion look like when we:

1. Colonise other planets/moons;
2. Achieve interstellar travel;
3. Discover alien life (sentient or otherwise)?

Will any of these affect our religious or spiritual development? Will religious belief have any great influence over the conditions of how, why or when humankind achieves these goals? Will any religions fade away as a result of spreading beyond Earth? Will other, less currently dominant belief systems come to the fore?

I've got my own answers to these questions but I'd like to hear from other people first.

 

[matthew_/!/]

If anything it would be scary on how some people may discriminate others because they weren't created on 'their' planet by 'their' god

 

[Guy Threepwood]

The Bible predicted mankind eventually becoming as numerous as the stars- which it also correctly compares to the number of grains of sand on Earth, something which seemed a wild exaggeration until we discovered the scope of the universe fairly recently.

This would presumably require more space than Earth provides! and Stephen hawking considers it our destiny to colonize the stars.

On finding ET, I think the Bible, the math and the observations all support one conclusion; we are alone, the stars are our dominion as well as everything on Earth

 

[Riverwolf]

Red's thread got me thinking: what will human religion look like when we:

1. Colonise other planets/moons;
2. Achieve interstellar travel;
3. Discover alien life (sentient or otherwise)?

Will any of these affect our religious or spiritual development?

Most certainly.

Will religious belief have any great influence over the conditions of how, why or when humankind achieves these goals?

Unfortunately, yes... seeing as how NASA is based in a country that's HEAVILY religious in its culture.

Will any religions fade away as a result of spreading beyond Earth?

Probably, at least on those other worlds.

Will other, less currently dominant belief systems come to the fore?

Possibly, but I doubt it. Pretty much all extant religions are dependent upon a single-planet experience, even the ones that deal in aliens and space.

I think it more likely that new religions will be born, out of the new cultures that form in these new worlds. Religion is, first and foremost, an expression of a culture's collective experience, and so you'll find different religions in places where that collective experience is different.

Since we haven't had any of these experiences, I'm not sure we can accurately speculate on exactly what those religions will look like.

Another possibility is that current religions will shift into new forms, going by the same names and having some shared stories and rituals, but being functionally quite different.

Probably a combination of both of these will be what happens, perhaps together with other things.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I remember viewing the imagery sent from Voyager as it entered interstellar space of Earth. Just a tiny almost indistinguishable speck in a vast sea of blackness dotted by stars. I think to us it's significant, but way out there the truth of the matter concerning religion becomes obvious as far as the universe itself goes. I doubt mankind itself will barely register before it dies when the Sun depletes its hydrogen supply and goes Red Giant.


The earth as seen from 3,7 billion miles away:

 

[Riverwolf]

The Bible predicted mankind eventually becoming as numerous as the stars- which it also correctly compares to the number of grains of sand on Earth, something which seemed a wild exaggeration until we discovered the scope of the universe fairly recently.

Pretty sure it's still a "wild exaggeration" even within that scope.

On finding ET, I think the Bible, the math and the observations all support one conclusion; we are alone, the stars are our dominion as well as everything on Earth

What math and what observations?

 

[Nietzsche]

We're naming one of them Jotunheim if I have anything to say about it goddamnit.

 

[Digital_Monk]

Religion needn't fade away when humanity begins to venture out into space. I think a large portion of the problems people have with meshing scientific and technological progress with faith and religion is that people are very limited creatures - and we project those limitations upon God, and God has no such limitations.

 

[RedStorm]

Great thread! Anyways i mainly sparked it because in my talks with religious friends and such, they seem very against the idea of space travel, specifically finding alien life. This is not surprising considering i live in a highly religious country and i live in the the southern fringes, lol. I am atheist but I've always had great interest in outer space, i feel like this spark of the unknown is sometimes lost in religion. As i am unaffiliated with any religion, many people ask the classic line "Do you think your existence is important?"
I answer "Do you? As a human you have to realize your own importance and if you want to be seen as "important" then make yourself that way. I love being just another speck of dust in this world, i wouldn't want to be the most "important". The unknown fills me with awe and scares me, and i LOVE the feeling."

 

[eiskalt]

Depends what the religion, which would be possible to achieve space travel with, would look like? I would imagine it to be creating a cohesive society, where people dont discriminate eachother, follow a certain goal and seek to improve themselves for the better.

 

[Father Heathen]

The Bible predicted mankind eventually becoming as numerous as the stars- which it also correctly compares to the number of grains of sand on Earth, something which seemed a wild exaggeration until we discovered the scope of the universe fairly recently.

This would presumably require more space than Earth provides! and Stephen hawking considers it our destiny to colonize the stars.

On finding ET, I think the Bible, the math and the observations all support one conclusion; we are alone, the stars are our dominion as well as everything on Earth

Billions of galaxies with billions of stars. Why would our star be the only one with a life bearing planet? I'm talking strictly mathematical probability. Also, what we're currently able to observe is extremely limited, and ancient goat herder "insight" is useless.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Pretty sure it's still a "wild exaggeration" even within that scope.

Most atheists argue there are MORE stars than grains of sand now rather than less, but they are both still within margin of error which is quite remarkable

What math and what observations?

Drake equation

The so called 'Great silence' of the galaxy

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Billions of galaxies with billions of stars. Why would our star be the only one with a life bearing planet? I'm talking strictly mathematical probability. Also, what we're currently able to observe is extremely limited, and ancient goat herder "insight" is useless.

Why? because that was the plan I would say

in terms of mathematical probability; we need to look at both sides of the equation- you only mention one.

e.g. There are billions of other people on the planet, why would you be the only person just like you?

Because you only need a short list of mundane idiosyncrasies in order to identify as utterly unique. Because each improbability compounds with the rest
The list of idiosyncrasies which make Earth habitable for complex life, far less humanity (and not to mention biogenesis) is far from short or mundane. The universe is simply far too small to make another Earth probable (I would argue!)


'Ancient goat herder insight' told us that the universe began with a specific creation event, not static, eternal, steady state models as atheists favored

They also told us the Earth was once covered in water- then a single land mass and single ocean

and that life appeared in distinct stages, not smooth gradualism


All considered 'religious pseudoscience' in the past. So I would trust an ancient goat herder over an intellectual academic based on predictive ability.

 

[Riverwolf]

Most atheists argue there are MORE stars than grains of sand now rather than less, but they are both still within margin of error which is quite remarkable

Pretty sure it's not. "MORE" stars doesn't exactly communicate the scales involved.

Just going off of what I know, I think it's a pretty safe estimate that the total number of stars currently in existence in the universe is uncountably greater than the total number of sand grains in the entire Solar System, let alone just Earth.

Drake equation

The so called 'Great silence' of the galaxy

I don't think you understand the Drake Equation. Nevermind that it's a highly flawed equation, depending on the numbers you put in, the Number Of Active Civilizations can easily more than just us.

Perhaps, you are actually referring to the Fermi Paradox?

 

[arthra]

1. Colonise other planets/moons;
2. Achieve interstellar travel;
3. Discover alien life (sentient or otherwise)?

Will any of these affect our religious or spiritual development?

A good question...

The Baha'i Writings do conceptualize man as capable of probing the mysteries of creation:

Though he is a dweller upon earth, he penetrates the mysteries of starry worlds inconceivably distant. He discovers latent realities within the bosom of the earth, uncovers treasures, penetrates secrets and mysteries of the phenomenal world and brings to light that which according to nature's jealous laws should remain hidden, unknown and unfathomable. Through an ideal inner power man brings these realities forth from the invisible plane to the visible.

(Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 177)

and

Observe that the body of man is confined to a small place: it covers oniy two spans of earth, but the spirit and mind of man travel to all countries and regions -- even through the limitless space of the heavens -- surround all that exists, and make discoveries in the exalted spheres and infinite distances.

- Abdul-Baha

(BW - Baha'i World Volumes, Volume 8, p. 237)


A Baha'i Duane Troxel wrote an essay on what he called "exotheology" and I'll cite it here and share a few of the Baha'i sources in his paper.

The Bahá'í Writings state categorically that while Bahá'u'lláh's Dispensation (Revelation) will endure for at least one thousand years, He inaugurates a new cycle that will last 500,000 years. (World Order of Bahá'u'lláh, 132; Citadel of Faith, 5) It naturally raises the question: "What comes after the achievement of planetary unity...inter-planetary unity?"

...[W]e cannot say definitely that His Revelation will be inter- planetary in scope. We can only say that such a thing may be possible. What Bahá'u'lláh means by His appearance in 'other worlds' He has not defined, as we could not visualize them in our present state, hence He was indefinite, and we cannot say whether He meant other planets or not..."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, December 24, 1941; Lights, #1555)

Shoghi Effendi does not limit the Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh to our star system alone. In answer to a letter from a Bahá'í written in 1938 he wrote:

"As to your question whether the power of Bahá'u'lláh extends over our solar system and to higher worlds; while the Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, it should be noted, is primarily for this planet, yet the spirit animating it is all-embracing, and the scope therefore cannot be restricted or defined."

(Lights, #1594)

One of the quotes in the essay has the following:

"...it cannot be imagined that the worlds of existence, whether the stars or this earth...were without man!" (SAQ 197)

http://bahai-library.com/troxel_extraterrestrials_exotheology

When we say "man" we are referring to intelligent life form not necessarily just an earthling... in other words a sentient being.

So in my view for the most part the Baha'i Writings do anticipate extraterrestrial intelligence and the possibility of contact with such beings.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Pretty sure it's not. "MORE" stars doesn't exactly communicate the scales involved.

Just going off of what I know, I think it's a pretty safe estimate that the total number of stars currently in existence in the universe is uncountably greater than the total number of sand grains in the entire Solar System, let alone just Earth.



I don't think you understand the Drake Equation. Nevermind that it's a highly flawed equation, depending on the numbers you put in, the Number Of Active Civilizations can easily more than just us.

Perhaps, you are actually referring to the Fermi Paradox?

Obviously these are not figures we can nail down for either, it's ball-park considering the scales, and again certainly within margin of error either way.

And similarly, the Drake equation has many variables at this point, it evolves, but it evolves in one particular direction;

In the days of Verne and Poe, we mused about what sort of folks lived on the moon, because wherever we went, we found people of some kind, however bizarre the environment seemed. We did not understand why we should expect other planets to be any different than ours. Today we would be thrilled with a fossilized microbe on Mars, because we better understand Earth's extraordinary fortune

i.e. while the number of estimated known stars remains fixed, the number of known hurdles facing the emergence of intelligent life grows exponentially. There are a finite, limited number of stars and an ever growing list of filters against another Earth orbiting any one of them.

The Fermi paradox is another point- any one civilization with tech. little better than ours, could have colonized the galaxy many times over by now, but this has never happened (ancient alien theories not withstanding!)

why not?

 

[Riverwolf]

Obviously these are not figures we can nail down for either, it's ball-park considering the scales, and again certainly within margin of error either way.

A margin of error so large it's like comparing the size of a grain of sand to the size of the Andromeda Galaxy (which, remember, is significantly bigger than ours).

So they're not comparable.

There are a finite, limited number of stars and an ever growing list of filters against another Earth orbiting any one of them.

Uh... not really. More and more "Earthlike exoplanets" are being found all the time.

In any case, when I last looked, Europa is the primary target for finding extraterrestrial life right now, not Mars.

The Fermi paradox is another point- any one civilization with tech. little better than ours, could have colonized the galaxy many times over by now, but this has never happened (ancient alien theories not withstanding!)

why not?

Wrong question. That is not what the Fermi Paradox asks.

What the paradox asks is "why can't we detect them, given the favorable odds predicted by the Drake Equation?"

We may not have detected them, yet, but that doesn't mean they're not there. Perhaps their radio waves simply haven't reached us, yet (or maybe thay have, depending on how willing you are to assume "aliens" on many ongoing mysteries, such as the WOW signal). Maybe they use something we can't yet detect. Maybe they never evolved the sorts of brains necessary to develop humanlike tool use.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

A margin of error so large it's like comparing the size of a grain of sand to the size of the Andromeda Galaxy (which, remember, is significantly bigger than ours).

So they're not comparable.



Uh... not really. More and more "Earthlike exoplanets" are being found all the time.

In any case, when I last looked, Europa is the primary target for finding extraterrestrial life right now, not Mars.



Wrong question. That is not what the Fermi Paradox asks.

What the paradox asks is "why can't we detect them, given the favorable odds predicted by the Drake Equation?"

We may not have detected them, yet, but that doesn't mean they're not there. Perhaps their radio waves simply haven't reached us, yet (or maybe thay have, depending on how willing you are to assume "aliens" on many ongoing mysteries, such as the WOW signal). Maybe they use something we can't yet detect. Maybe they never evolved the sorts of brains necessary to develop humanlike tool use.

They are comparable enough for various estimates to come out on either side. Point being, that the number of stars we can calculate has drastically caught up with the number of grains of sand, validating the Bible's description as has so often happened with scientific progress.

I see 'earthlike planet found' in pop-science headlines on a weekly basis- clickbait. At best these refer to ambiguous dips in the visual magnitude of a star which can be caused by many things, interpreted as a planet in a generously wide 'habitable zone'- some of the most prominent 'discoveries' have turned out to not exist at all.

It's interesting that the WOW signal,; an anecdotal simplest of mathematical sequences reported as once drifting across space, is taken as serious evidence of (alien) ID.- what else could it be??

While a mind boggling encyclopedia of demonstrably functional mathematical constants, equations, algorithms discovered to permeate all of space/time, can be safely assumed to have blundered into existence for no particular reason.

 

[Riverwolf]

They are comparable enough for various estimates to come out on either side. Point being, that the number of stars we can calculate has drastically caught up with the number of grains of sand, validating the Bible's description as has so often happened with scientific progress.

As explained, this is not even remotely true.

I see 'earthlike planet found' in pop-science headlines on a weekly basis- clickbait. At best these refer to ambiguous dips in the visual magnitude of a star which can be caused by many things, interpreted as a planet in a generously wide 'habitable zone'- some of the most prominent 'discoveries' have turned out to not exist at all.

As it turns out, I don't typically get my information from such places, but rather from reporters who actually understand these matters.

You might want to brush up. Information gets outdated quickly.

("Scientists discuss these possibilities vociferously, as well they should. Science is all about not fooling ourselves. A good scientist wants other scientists to try to poke holes in their ideas.")

I'll concede that "Earthlike" may be a wee bit presumptuous, since we can't yet know whether Earth-sized planets found in their Stars' habital zones actually are habitable. I doubt Venus would be any more friendly if she were in Sun's habitable zone.

However, the more we look, the more we find. And the more we find with similarities to us. I'm all but 99% positive that we'll find extraterrestrial life soon, even on Europa.

It's interesting that the WOW signal,; an anecdotal simplest of mathematical sequences reported as once drifting across space, is taken as serious evidence of (alien) ID.- what else could it be??

My attempt at sarcasm obviously failed...

There's a reason why I said "depending on how willing you are to assume "aliens" in ongoing mysteries." We don't know what the WOW signal was, and I, for one, am not willing to call aliens just yet on it simply because we don't know what it was. Neither are most scientists.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

I got the idea for this thread from @RedStorm's thread on which religions talk about space. Thanks, Redstorm, for sparking this one!

Red's thread got me thinking: what will human religion look like when we:

1. Colonise other planets/moons;
2. Achieve interstellar travel;
3. Discover alien life (sentient or otherwise)?

Will any of these affect our religious or spiritual development? Will religious belief have any great influence over the conditions of how, why or when humankind achieves these goals? Will any religions fade away as a result of spreading beyond Earth? Will other, less currently dominant belief systems come to the fore?

I've got my own answers to these questions but I'd like to hear from other people first.

1. Can't see much changing here. Though from a Christian point of view, I'd wonder how Jesus' return will work if we have humans all over the galaxy on different planets.

2. Same as number 1 really, otherwise can't see much of a change or effect on religion.

3. This is the big one, really big. If the alien life is unintelligent, non-sapient, that can be explained away fairly easily. If there are other actual intelligent alien civilisations however, that would certainly raise a lot of questions, and from a Christian view especially about salvation and how these other people fit in, and if Jesus died for them too, and why didn't God tell us about other people He created, etc.