Religion and theology, what do you mean by "Study"?

[firedragon]

For some time I have been wondering why a lot of people say "I have studied this" in their arguments. Rather than speaking for other theologies, I have noted some people say "I have studied Islam" and I wish to understand from their perspectives what they mean by "study".

I will give you the Islamic perspective to give a background to what the tradition of Islam means by study.

Lets say a person is to "Study" Islam. First thing they as a standard rule have to do is master the Arabic language of the scripture. Second would be to study the Qur'an and people may take several angles of study. Some may study tafseer which is very common. And that will have its own path and its painstaking. Some will study the linguistics of the Quran in Tajweed, nuances, poetic nature, hermeneutics, etc etc.

Then in Islam there are other matters to study like the study of Ahadith sciences. Then you get Fikh. And you get Aqeedah. Well, this could go on. But what I hear is "I have read the Quran" and that constitutes as "I have studied Islam". Some even go on to provide opinions which is considered a huge task of studying for almost a decade in order to be able to provide opinions.

I am no expert in Judaism. But I do know that, lets say I tell a Jewish scholar "I have read the Tanakh" and that means I have studied "Judaism" in my experience that is equal to being a laughing stock. Its not enough.

In Christian scholarship, I believe its pretty similar although the text to be studied in Christianity is smaller than Jewish material. And most of scholarship has been doing their business for over a century and people inherit their wheel and its easy for people to follow through. I am not talking about missionary schools.

I will never forget an absolutely unorthodox scholar of sociology of religion said once "I have looked at the stars, but that does not mean I am an astrophysicist". I do understand that if someone gets into the 10th grade and studies mathematics he is still studying. Thats true. I also do understand that he has to study a lot more to try and provide a new opinion in debunking someone like lets say John Nash. But he can still say "I have studied". But at least has he not learned some mathematics properly?

In your paradigm, what do you mean when you say "Study"? And why do you think it should be referred to as "Study"?

 

[Rival]

Some folks aren't able to learn languages easily; haven't the time; or lack the will. I don't think this should bar them from being able to study religion and/or theology.

I would argue that reading a holy text, asking Rabbis/Priests/so on and other scholars about it; reading commentary, explanatory books, etc, as well as listening to lectures, going to services/masses/etc; talking to practitioners; reading holy writings from their faiths (saints lives and so on) counts as study.

 

[Lain]

In your paradigm, what do you mean when you say "Study"? And why do you think it should be referred to as "Study"?

Usually what I mean when I say "I am studying this" for myself I would mean that I am reading for understanding (this involves a lot more than just reading through and frequently means rereading a text a lot after going back and forth between it and secondary material on it, asking teachers about it, lectures, the whole thing) on a subject various people and comprehending what I am reading with the assistance of teachers in the religion who understand what I am trying to learn (usually older, having had degrees and at least a decade of experience). Along with prayer, fasting, and the other aids to knowledge that are necessary. To me this should be called "studying" because it is the process of acquiring certain knowledge on a thing, usually a question like "what is the model of the intellect that Evagrius presents and why?" When one is able to present an accurate understanding of that subject and be able to prove that it is in fact accurate I'd say they have "studied" that.

Any other uses of the term is really just that expanded greatly, like if I said "this person is a well-studied Thomist" I'd mean that they can present an accurate understanding of Thomistic philosophy and prove that it is accurate. For large subjects like that the person has usually been at it for years and probably will have degrees (in my experience at least). I would not call a person who just began to read introductions to the subject "well-studied" but "in the beginning steps of studying."

For studying New Testament theology the process is like how you described for Islam, with different material being looked at obviously. For me to call a person "well-studied" in that I'd expect that they knew Greek at a bare minimum and have devoted years to the subject (because there are some who think because they can read Greek letters they can offer opinions on what it all means immediately) with the same process as above, praying, fasting, asking, answering, and proving the answers to various questions, and so on.

 

[firedragon]

Some folks aren't able to learn languages easily; haven't the time; or lack the will. I don't think this should bar them from being able to study religion and/or theology.

Thats absolutely true. But I am only asking for other peoples paradigm.

In Islamic tradition, it is impossible to study Islam without mastering the language. Because the foundation of studies stem from it. Yet, there is a course you can take in sociology of Islam somewhere which does not need the language.

I would argue that reading a holy text, asking Rabbis/Priests/so on and other scholars about it; reading commentary, explanatory books, etc, as well as listening to lectures, going to services/masses/etc; talking to practitioners; reading holy writings from their faiths (saints lives and so on) counts as study.

I agree.

 

[firedragon]

Usually what I mean when I say "I am studying this" for myself I would mean that I am reading for understanding (this involves a lot more than just reading through and frequently means rereading a text a lot after going back and forth between it and secondary material on it, asking teachers about it, lectures, the whole thing) on a subject various people and comprehending what I am reading with the assistance of teachers in the religion who understand what I am trying to learn (usually older, having had degrees and at least a decade of experience). Along with prayer, fasting, and the other aids to knowledge that are necessary. To me this should be called "studying" because it is the process of acquiring certain knowledge on a thing, usually a question like "what is the model of the intellect that Evagrius presents and why?" When one is able to present an accurate understanding of that subject and be able to prove that it is in fact accurate I'd say they have "studied" that.

Any other uses of the term is really just that expanded greatly, like if I said "this person is a well-studied Thomist" I'd mean that they can present an accurate understanding of Thomistic philosophy and prove that it is accurate. For large subjects like that the person has usually been at it for years and probably will have degrees (in my experience at least). I would not call a person who just began to read introductions to the subject "well-studied" but "in the beginning steps of studying."

For studying New Testament theology the process is like how you described for Islam, with different material being looked at obviously. For me to call a person "well-studied" in that I'd expect that they knew Greek at a bare minimum and have devoted years to the subject (because there are some who think because they can read Greek letters they can offer opinions on what it all means immediately) with the same process as above, praying, fasting, asking, answering, and proving the answers to various questions, and so on.

Very well said I think.

 

[SalixIncendium]

In your paradigm, what do you mean when you say "Study"?

I've read more than one translation of the scripture along with as many commentaries as I could get my hands on, compared them with my own experiences, and contemplated them during meditation.

And why do you think it should be referred to as "Study"?

For me or for others?

 

[firedragon]

I've read more than one translation of the scripture along with as many commentaries as I could get my hands on, compared them with my own experiences, and contemplated them during meditation.



For me or for others?

Well that's great.

And yes. I asked "for you". From your paradigm.

 

[JustGeorge]

I agree with what everyone else has said here.

Study usually involves different methods, not just one reading of a singular scripture(although the reading of that scripture may be called the beginning of a study, if the person was unknowledgeable about it before). Practice, conversation with others and applying what you are studying are all important aspects as well.

How you will study depends on the reason. Are you trying to uncover a personal truth? Perhaps that would merit learning another language to enhance study. Just trying to better understand your neighbor? That may be better enhanced by conversation with those you wish to learn about, rather than learning another language.

 

[SalixIncendium]

And yes. I asked "for you". From your paradigm.

Well, because of what I mean when I say “study,” I reckon.

 

[firedragon]

I agree with what everyone else has said here.

Study usually involves different methods, not just one reading of a singular scripture(although the reading of that scripture may be called the beginning of a study, if the person was unknowledgeable about it before). Practice, conversation with others and applying what you are studying are all important aspects as well.

How you will study depends on the reason. Are you trying to uncover a personal truth? Perhaps that would merit learning another language to enhance study. Just trying to better understand your neighbor? That may be better enhanced by conversation with those you wish to learn about, rather than learning another language.

Let me give one example. Analyse it and tell me what you think.

In this very forum, I see something quite often. This statement is made.

"I have studied Hindui scripture, Buddhist scripture, Quran, the Bible, etc". When asked "which Hindu scripture have studied", the answer is "All of them".

See, in my life, I have only met one single scholar who is now retired and is about 65 years old who has studied these four scripture. When someone says "I have studied Hindu scripture", it is so vast, its fantastic.

But it so happened that when asked, no study or even reading was done. The only knowledge they had about HIndu Scripture is what they read in one single website where cherry picked verses were cut and pasted for a particular purpose. Thats it.

That being said, I have no choice but to agree with you. You are right.

 

[metis]

I do believe that "study" is a process, not a result.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

For some time I have been wondering why a lot of people say "I have studied this" in their arguments.

By study, I mean a systematic review of the relevant information in a field with the intent of retaining it and being able to repeat and use it.

I would only do this after a more casual inspection led me to believe that there was value there.

You seem to imply that one has to study Islam to comment on it in a meaningful way. I disagree. I've seen enough without studying it to know that there is nothing there for me to justify putting more time into it. I also didn't study Jehovah's Witnesses, Scientology, or Mormonism, but I did have enough information anyway to know that these were also not things to study.

 

[firedragon]

I do believe that "study" is a process, not a result.

True. But when someone says "I have studied", that's a result.

 

[metis]

True. But when someone says "I have studied", that's a result.

Thus, the only serious questions are "how much?" and "from which source(s)?".

 

[firedragon]

You seem to imply that one has to study Islam to comment on it in a meaningful way. I disagree. I've seen enough without studying it to know that there is nothing there for me to justify putting more time into it. I also didn't study Jehovah's Witnesses, Scientology, or Mormonism, but I did have enough information anyway to know that these were also not things to study.

So you have not studied any of them. No problem. I was only asking what "study" means to you.

Thanks.

Also, about this "Implication", I must say no, I didnt say that in order to "comment in a meaningful way" one has to study Islam. But that would be a reasonable comment, like "I dont know much about religion". that's a reasonable comment. Or, from what I learned through this particular website, this is what I see. that to is a reasonable. comment.

But reading a website, or watching TV, and making expert commentaries is not meaningful. Also, pretending to have studied, and making exegesis is also not meaningful. About any religion or even a subject for that matter.

 

[firedragon]

Thus, the only serious questions are "how much?" and "from which source(s)?".

Thats true. And when they give the sources like I have already said, you will know the "how much".

Lets say I claim "I have studied" Judaism. Thats a very very broad claim. Though I have not studied Judaism, I do know how far and wide their studies go. In my opinion, to make commentary about a theology like that with no knowledge on it is a shame.

But I can say this. I have studied the first five verses in Genesis, and I have read Tafsir on it, and that is my scope. that sounds like a valid and honest position to claim.

I do hope you understand. But some one else might have a different perspective. So I would like to hear it.

 

[Vee]

In your paradigm, what do you mean when you say "Study"? And why do you think it should be referred to as "Study"?

I study the Bible regularly. For me it means to look deeper into the details, understand the circumstances of each passage, be familiar with the whats and whys. That takes times and it's easily forgotten, so I find it more productive to keep the information in my mind as much as possible.

 

[VoidCat]

When I say I studied something...i mean I've possibly done the following: read quite a bit on the topic as in books, scholarly articles, websites, possibly taken notes, possibly attempted to message college professors and scholars in the field, had practical knowledge on the topic, and talked to folk about it among other things. If I say I'm studying this I mean I'm finding a lot of info on it and want to know more. Maybe I've haven't learned enough on the topic to be as well versed as you say you should be to say I've studied or am studying... But I'll admit that on farther questioning and hopefully be willing to learn more and add the knowledge I learn to my studies.

 

[firedragon]

When I say I studied something...i mean I've possibly done the following: read quite a bit on the topic as in books, scholarly articles, websites, possibly taken notes, possibly attempted to message college professors and scholars in the field, had practical knowledge on the topic, and talked to folk about it among other things. If I say I'm studying this I mean I'm finding a lot of info on it and want to know more. Maybe I've haven't learned enough on the topic to be as well versed as you say you should be to say I've studied or am studying... But I'll admit that on farther questioning and hopefully be willing to learn more and add the knowledge I learn to my studies.

May I suggest something brother? Avoid all websites. I mean "All". I do understand some websites are genuine, and some are not. What I do is, I avoid all websites. This is what I learned through a donkeys number of years.

If you wish to gain knowledge through Wikipedia, that would be the only website that can be deemed "better". But if you do, go to the source, that means the scholar behind that one particular point, research him, find the alternatives, and only then, its proper.

Every tom, dick and harry can create a website. There are people in our very forum who give a source to some of the most nonsensical, bias website one could find as his "scholarly source".

Its a very hard thing to do, and seems like a nonsensical thing to do. But its my way of doing things. IN my experience, 99% of the websites give bogus information. But the thing is, I have no research to give you that figure. It is my personal portrayal of how much I detest websites.

The thing with us is brother that we like to study every damn thing on earth. Rather, lets take our time, and study each subject in depth. And if there is no choice whatsoever, and we have to go to a website, go only to wikipedia, and go to the direct or primary source that is mentioned in that.

Peace ROL. I hope you are doing great.

 

[mangalavara]

I have noted some people say "I have studied Islam" and I wish to understand from their perspectives what they mean by "study".

I think they mean research. I myself have read translations of the Qur'an and I have researched what it says about some topics. I wouldn't say though that I have studied it in an Islamic sense or even in a Western academic sense (the latter from my perspective would be the most meaningless way to study it).

In your paradigm, what do you mean when you say "Study"?

In Sanātana Dharma, better known as Hinduism, to study a scripture, I think, would involve reading it with a gurū who can rightly explain it to where a person not only understands it but also gets closer to the goal of mokṣa or liberation from the cycle of transmigration. This is something I would have to do some research on in order to know with certainty.