Religion and mental health

[Remté]

The Qur'an says eg

(7:80-84) "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)"

(7:81) - "Will ye commit abomination such as no creature ever did before you?"

(26:165-166) - "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing"​

I couldn't find the verse that says, "Ignore all the homophobic stuff in this book." Perhaps you could point it out to me.

That's not homophobic. The people Lut warned did more than commit to acts such as would suit a homosexual. In the light of history it may be questioned if they were so much homosexual as simply had sex with men.

 

[blü 2]

That's not homophobic. The people Lut warned did more than commit to acts such as would suit a homosexual. In the light of history it may be questioned if they were so much homosexual as simply had sex with men.

The text says they got burnt because of their sexual actions.

It says their sexual orientation is not to be tolerated.

But when Islam comes to agree with you, I'll cheer.

 

[Remté]

The text says they got burnt because of their sexual actions.

It says their sexual orientation is not to be tolerated.

But when Islam comes to agree with you, I'll cheer.

It doesn't say their sexual orientation is not to be tolerated. The meaning is more complex than that.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How does that tie-in to this Gallup survey that shows the more religious a person is, the more likely they are to be happy?

Source

Happiness isn't indicative of being free of mental illness. It's not likely with some illnesses, granted, but some illnesses bring about a heightened sense of wellness and euphoria.
And that doesn't make much sense. How can an atheist be "very religious" or "moderately religious" when they are all "nonreligious?"

 

[blü 2]

It doesn't say their sexual orientation is not to be tolerated. The meaning is more complex than that.

When Islam agrees with you and ceases to be homophobic, I'll cheer.

Just as I said.

 

[Remté]

Happiness isn't indicative of being free of mental illness. It's not likely with some illnesses, granted, but some illnesses bring about a heightened sense of wellness and euphoria.

That wouldn't affect the statistics.

 

[Remté]

When Islam agrees with you and ceases to be homophobic, I'll cheer.

Just as I said.

If you like to spread hatred it suits you to slander, but if you wish to make a point you better keep the argument straight and not jump from the Quran to Islam and pretend they're the same thing.

 

[blü 2]

If you like to spread hatred it suits you to slander, but if you wish to make a point you better keep the argument straight and not jump from the Quran to Islam and pretend they're the same thing.

I'm cheering for tolerance, inclusion, understanding, equality and the level playing field, equality for women, education, decency and reason.

I'm on the same team as anyone, religious or not, who cheers for those things.

 

[Valjean]

Mental health is a massive problem in society. It's costing us millions in tax money to care for people, disrupts families, is at the root of some crime, and at the root of some addictions like drugs and gambling. Religion, on the other hand, is a different field altogether. Yes they do cross over. When someone suffers from delusions of grandeur (thinking they are God, in particular) it has to be heartbreaking. When somebody gets addicted to religion to the point of an obsession, it's equally as damaging. Still, religion can ease a person's mind, clam them down, give them solace in times of grief, and more.

As can drugs...

 

[Vinayaka]

As can drugs...

As can drugs what? Some drugs are really helpful. provide solace, relieve pain, cure disease, and more. Others can kill.

 

[Tumah]

Happiness isn't indicative of being free of mental illness. It's not likely with some illnesses, granted, but some illnesses bring about a heightened sense of wellness and euphoria.

That's true, although I think it would generally be a good indicator. Obviously if half the people they caught were bipolar under a swing of mania, you would be right.

And that doesn't make much sense. How can an atheist be "very religious" or "moderately religious" when they are all "nonreligious?"

I'm guessing it just means, how much atheism/agnosticism plays in your life. They're definition of "religious" looks like it was "how much does religion play in your daily life.

 

[Tumah]

I would have to question the method they used for determining a person's happiness. Was it people self-reporting their level of happiness? I had a great aunt who claimed that because of her strong faith she was happier than those without faith; yet in my opinion she was one of the most miserable people I've ever met. She was constantly upset about rampant sin in the world, was always worried about if her loved ones were 'saved', and would get hysterical if anyone ever questioned her beliefs. However, if she were polled I can guarantee that she'd rate herself as being VERY happy... all because she was taught her faith was supposed to make her happier.

I'm not a pollster, but I'm assuming you've made this remark after reading up on their methodologies?

 

[Tumah]

Many times when I ask people "are you happy", they say "yes I am happy". But when asking deeper they will say "I am not happy"

I do not believe this type of surveys blindly, and below I have 4 very good reasons why I don't believe them:

1) My first thought that comes to mind now is "many religious people are into evangelizing". So when they are asked in a survey how happy they are, it would be bad "evangelizing trick" to say I am unhappy; very bad. So I expect them to say I am happy, even when not.

2) Second thought "even my Master says that it's good to always smile, and don't show when you are unhappy. That way other people get happy to see you smile. And as a consequence it might make you even happy". So religious people might not share it in a survey when they are unhappy. It takes me sometimes a few trick questions to get the real happiness out of them. I odn't like participating in surveys. I have done some. Those asking me to fill in, are happy when I just fill in. They are not like me "triple asking to check if I really am happy or not". This to me shows that a survey about "happy or not" is not scientific accurate at all.

3) Third thought "Religious people are very good in faking stuff. In my church it seems all very halleluja. Once I asked someone who know more about the ins and outs and he told me `you don't want to know what is going on in the higher levels in the church`". I did not want to know even. Thinking of boy stories and nun stories in Roman Catholic Churches I get a pretty good picture.

4) Fourth thought "They probably didn't ask the young catholic boys and nuns in this survey of fanatical religious people"

Those came up already in the first 3 minutes thinking about it.

The religion that scored the highest (Judaism) does not evangelize, and teaches that happiness is a choice. For the rest, I imagine that's what sample size is meant to alleviate. That being said, have you read their methodologies? Without knowing how they came to their conclusions, it's silly to put them in doubt, no?

 

[Remté]

I'm cheering for tolerance, inclusion, understanding, equality and the level playing field, equality for women, education, decency and reason.

I'm on the same team as anyone, religious or not, who cheers for those things.

Well why don't you educate yourself about the Quran then since you feel the need to talk about it?

 

[stvdv]

The religion that scored the highest (Judaism) does not evangelize, and teaches that happiness is a choice. For the rest, I imagine that's what sample size is meant to alleviate. That being said, have you read their methodologies? Without knowing how they came to their conclusions, it's silly to put them in doubt, no?

When writing "many religious people" I had Judaism in thought for not evangelizing. Good to hear that happiness is a choice also in Judaism.

I remember the story about 3 buddhist monks who always laughed. Reason "waking up we have 2 choices; laughing is our choice". 1 day 1 monk died. All people were sure the remaining monks would "not laugh". But they laughed more than ever. People got even upset with this behavior now. Then they explained "our brother would turn around in his grave if we would not have laughed".

There are many surveys. Mine is my own little survey. All surveys will have some truth in them, but never the whole truth IMO.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I'm not a pollster, but I'm assuming you've made this remark after reading up on their methodologies?

Actually if you reread my post you'll see that I'm asking what the method used was. Was it self-reporting? If so, I see serious problems with such a method.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's true, although I think it would generally be a good indicator. Obviously if half the people they caught were bipolar under a swing of mania, you would be right.

I doubt it. There are even some, such as Buddhist, who will claim happiness isn't even a worthwhile pursuit given it's temporary and fleeting nature. And there is also the fact that religion is often very important to those seeking treatment for their mental illnesses. And we can look at this issue by state, where from Indiana to Louisiana the more religious states are some of the worst off (the trends tend to hold between different sources, though with some differences)

Overall, the Bible Belt isn't doing that well.

I'm guessing it just means, how much atheism/agnosticism plays in your life. They're definition of "religious" looks like it was "how much does religion play in your daily life.

It tends to play a rather insignificant role. Whether you're Agnostic like Sagan and lack evidence or Atheist and deny the existence of god, the question of "how much does religion play in your daily life" doesn't translate over very well.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That wouldn't affect the statistics.

Actually it would. Such as, those with psychotic disorders or manic episodes may state they are fine, happy, and feeling great, but in such episodes we tend to see a range of destructive behaviors. Those with autism tend to not be very good at identifying their emotional states. Maybe not by much, but it's definitely something that should be monitored for.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And, of course, the Scandinavian countries, despite being the most atheist, are the most happy, with a remarkable index for well being and human development, high literacy, and low crime.

 

[blü 2]

Well why don't you educate yourself about the Quran then since you feel the need to talk about it?

I quoted you the Qur'an. And I asked you for the part that said, 'Ignore the homophobic parts of this book'; but from your silence on that point I take it there isn't one. Just as there isn't one in the Tanakh or New Testament.