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Religion and Magick

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Rejected, Jun 22, 2006.

  1. Rejected

    Rejected Under Reconstruction

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    Do you think it’s possible to tap into the power/essence/knowledge of your deity through intercessory methods such as rituals, tarot, spells, etc?

    Why or why not.
    If yes, how does it work?
    What results have you achieved through the use of magick?
     
  2. Karl R

    Karl R Active Member

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    Like prayer, laying on hands, or chanting? Absolutely.

    I believe god will intercede on my behalf, and sometimes I feel that I need that assistance.

    Do any external procedures that help you focus (before or during).
    Ask god for something.
    Believe.

    Improved health. Improved emotional health. I got bailed out of a couple impending conflicts. And I got one miracle.

    I believe magick is just prayer with props. I generally prefer not to use props, but that's a personal preference.
     
  3. Silicon Hero

    Silicon Hero Member

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    No, because My God does not condone those actions. And personally I am a skeptic on them.
     
  4. Doktormartini

    Doktormartini 小虎

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    Although I haven't done it, I think it's possible and ok. Well, obviously as long as you aren't doing Black Magick.

    Sure, the Bible says it's wrong, but seriously, it's not. Just because it says it is doesn't mean it is. The Bible says Astrology is evil, yet that is probably how the earth's lands were discovered.
     
  5. kai

    kai ragamuffin

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    i would consider all the ritual in christian religion magic the prayers the mass its all the request of intercession by the practitioner to the diety, whats the difference?
     
  6. Ðanisty

    Ðanisty Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to use props with magick. Also, there are a lot of prayers and other Christian rituals that do use props.

    Why should this be obvious? It really depends on what religion you are as to whether it would be prohibited or not. Define Black Magick. Most magickians I know no longer rely on such over-simplified concepts as White and Black Magick.

    As for me, I use meditation to commune with Lucifer and I use Tarot for divination. I've found both to be very effective.
     
  7. Draka

    Draka Wonder Woman

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    Of course.

    Because it is merely a physical way to ease communication with the spiritual. Use of conduits so to speak.

    By allowing yourself and the object/prayer/ritual you are using to become used as a portal for the Divine, which runs through everything anyway.

    Healing, peace, karma enacted, guidance, and so on and so forth.
     
  8. Rejected

    Rejected Under Reconstruction

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    This is the point I was getting at, I just wanted to see what the general opinion was first.

    Exodus 22:18; Leviticus 19:31; Leviticus 20:6; Leviticus 20:27; Deuteronomy 18:9-14

    All these passages condemn the use of sorcery, mediums, divination and witchcraft, punishable with death.

    1 Samuel 28:7-25

    In this passage Saul goes to consult a medium after the loss of his kingdom and faith.

    The Qu' ran speaks of two angel teaching men sorcery, but tells that nothing good can come of it, that those who use it have sold their souls. Later in the texts it only mentions magicians in a negative light.

    Now we have groups like the Golden Dawn, OTO, the A.-.A.-., and the Thule Society, who draw a lot of their influence form Qabbala and the workings of John Dee (who claimed to converse with Angels and produced the infamous Enochian Keys). :cover:

    Bearing all this in mind the Roman Catholic church along with other protestant denominations, the Jewish Qabbala, and possibly Islam and the Orthodox church (never did my homework on these two) use prescribed prayers, rituals, candles, incense, and music, (not to mention sacramental wine) to commune with God and make their will manifest. Ask any practitioner and they will tell you that this is a text-book definition of Ritual Magick.:eek:

    Most of the Christians I’ve talked to on the subject have given me mixed answers. Some think its nonsense. Others believe in it and denounce it as evil. Then you have the fundi-Mentals who say that Dungeons & Dragons and Harry Potter are actual textbooks on satanic sorcery. (Newsflash for these guys, I have done my homework on both of these subjects, and demonology these things ain't)

    So this begs the question, why does the church forbid the use of these practices, on fear of death, if there is no power in them.
    And for that matter why does the church use them at all themselves?:ignore:

    Is there power in these practices?

    Can one tap into the power if God with the Enochian Keys?
    Is it possible to command the 72 Demon princes imprisoned by Solomon?

    Or is this just another case of the church saying “do as I say, not as I do,” and more ghost stories to scare the kiddies straight?
     
  9. EnhancedSpirit

    EnhancedSpirit High Priestess

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    This is only because of translation. I would like to make note that the word witchcraft in the bible is translated from the Greek word pharmakia (the root word for pharmaceuticals). And the verse. "shall not suffer a witch to live", the word suffer means to employee, or pay for services.

    The catholic church burns candles and incense, and pray to entities other than God. (Mother Mary, Saints, and Angels). I see no difference in this and a wiccan lighting candles and incense and asking Gaia, or any other Spiritual Mother for guidence.
     
  10. Moses the God Archetype*

    Moses the God Archetype* Active Member

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    :eek:m: Magic or mysticism is apart of everyday life for the hindu that understands the difference between matter and jiva....chanting,prayer,and meditation helps bring me closer to krishna everyday in its own way.:flower2:
     
  11. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    I don't believe that the Bible does say astrology is evil. Can you quote the passage, please?
     
  12. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    No. I don't believe that it is possible to 'tap into divinity' per se. I do believe it is possible to tap into the power/essence/knowledge of your own divinity through such means.

    Divination is subjective, and therefore necessarily unique to each individual who makes a reading (does a take). I dunno about magik (hic), but tarot is pretty simple. It is all about meaning: what the symbols on the cards mean to you at a given moment. Tarot is a oracle. Some cards have intricate, 'esoteric' symbolism that must be learned to be of any practical use; others strive to appeal to simpler, universal symbolism. Regardless, the way an oracle works is to appeal to your 'state of mind' and circumstances at the time you are reading; that is what is significant to the reading. The symbolism of tarot works to be significant only for that event in that moment of time. The same identical effect can be achieved by picking up your favourite literature and turning to a random page, reading a passage and having the lightblub *snap* come on --i.e. gaining some significant insight into your present circumstances through associative connection.
     
  13. onmybelief

    onmybelief Active Member

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    I don't know those work or not. Frankly I do not have enough knowledge to make a definite answer.
     
  14. Kungfuzed

    Kungfuzed Student Nurse

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    Please explain how one would use Astrology to discover the earth's lands as opposed to using Astronomy.
     
  15. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Yes. I believe that we are all born with the ability. As we grow, and learn the things that we need to learn to be children, then adults, we lose that ability; it is much like a muscle, "use it or lose it".

    How does it work ? I don't know. I think it works by tapping into the life force (Chi, Ki, whatever you wish to call it).

    What have I achieved ? Healing others, on some occasions. Though I am careful about what I 'take on'; it is easy to use that energy to "hide" a pain. A pain is symptomatic of something wrong; hiding a pain is no cure.
     
  16. Circle_One

    Circle_One Well-Known Member

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    Just for the record. Magick is not colored. It, in and of itself, does not differentiate between "good" and "evil", or "black" and "white". Magick, the very essence of Magick itself is neutral. It is the heart and will of the spell caster that determines whether the forces he'll/she'll be invoking for said practices will be used for "good" or "evil". So, just so you know and don't continue to use the terms "black" or "white" Magick (I understand that a lot of people don't know this, but I just thought I'd let you know because many Witches, myself included, take offense to the terms :)).

    The church forbids these practices because it knows that there is great power in them. It fears that if it's followers tap into these forces, then they will have no more need to pray constantly to their God, or return to their church, in order to bring their will about, IMO.

    Of course there's power in them. These forces hold great power. One just needs to find the right way to tap into them.
     
  17. Elvendon

    Elvendon Mystical Tea Dispenser

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    I personally believe that Christianity is a baptismal faith - it's core ethical principles and theology are exported, while the outward manifestation of ritual, the applied ethics and the peripheral theology are open to "borrowing" bits from other faiths.

    The Old Testament is, in part, God's message to the Israelites and a salvation history of their people. It is, as such, authoritative. However, we cannot read too much into it - God's message to all peoples was in the person of Jesus. He does not just fulfill the Jewish Law, but all Laws - he calls people back to the essence of their most deeply held beliefs, admonishes them for not upholding these core principles but worrying endlessly about unimportant matters - as he put it, straining at knats but swallowing camels. The Old Testament I consider to be the *best* source of Law-guidance and how God relates to creation as a whole and as in illustration of what is wrong with the world - where it all went wrong. The New Testament tells us what to do right.

    I am no Jew. I have little, if any, Jewish blood in me. Thus, why would God call me to obey the Old Law he gave to a people not of my blood? Instead, his messages became manifest in the faiths of my ancestors - Germanic and Celtic Polytheism. They, like 1st Century Judaism, remembered some of the Old, Godly ways, but forgot or neglected others. They forgot the theology and the importance of peace, but retained the importance of freedom and equality. The Greeks however lost their ideas of equality completely, but retained a sense of the elevated, transcendent nature of the God-head.

    By his sacrifice, Jesus not only sanctified all these belief systems, reconnecting them to the divine, he also provided his own brand - a rubber stamp that, if people wished, could put on the old ways that made them even closer to the ideal. Just as Rome, an earthly empire, imposed it's own political structure on top of the existing ones, the Kingdom placed it's own ethics and theology atop already existing, deeply sacred viewpoints and rituals. Not all would listen, not all would follow, but by hook or by crook, everyone will accept what Christ truly means - peace and love - even if they cannot accept his obvious name.
     
  18. Radio Frequency X

    Radio Frequency X World Leader Pretend

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    Magic, as I understand it, is little more than the combination of ritual, prayer, and meditation through the foci of correspondences. Items (be they powders, stones, herbs, cards, or idols) correspond to things that the magician seeks to awaken in themselves or in the world. It's a superstitious behavior that I'm surprised is not more readily accepted in the civilized world. Personally, I have little time or inclination for magic, but it doesn't seem that strange to me.
     
  19. DanDanTheCoffeyMan

    DanDanTheCoffeyMan New Member

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    First of all, its magic not magick

    where in the bible does it say astology is evil, and what bible are you reading?
     
  20. Mike182

    Mike182 Flaming Queer

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    actually, a lot of pagans spell magick with a k on the end now :)
     
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