Religion and Education

[gnostic]

Religion can be learned for those who seek religion.

There are times and place for learning a religion.

Why should valuable time be wasted at school when you can learn what you need to know at a church?

 

[methylatedghosts]

because a church doesn't teach all there is to know about religion. A church only teaches the religion, heck.. even only the part of a religion it wants to teach.

Where else outside a public school can a child learn the basics of most world religions from an unbiased perspective? I think school is the perfect place for it.

 

[darkendless]

Religion should be there for those who seek to learn about it, and far enough away from the rest who do not require it in their education.
I think and always have thought that single faith schools encourage the "us and them" mindset which is pretty harmful when you have private school kids growing up getting taught that they're better than everyone else which is the case here.

 

[gnostic]

because a church doesn't teach all there is to know about religion. A church only teaches the religion, heck.. even only the part of a religion it wants to teach.

Where else outside a public school can a child learn the basics of most world religions from an unbiased perspective? I think school is the perfect place for it.

That's a load of crap.

Eight out of ten families at the school belonged to a church, when I was growing up and go through public schools. There need no religion to be taught in a schools. And why I should learn about religion that I didn't belong to.

The proper place to learn about god and your scripture is in a church. If people to seek religion then seek religion. Don't make religion a compulsory subject, especially in public schools.

If I had children and I was a Christian, then I would perhaps enrolled them in Christian school. But I am not.

Last thing we all need is for some damn preacher in public schools.

Last year, the damn prime minister wanted to force all public schools to have Christian counselors. A school counselor supposed to help a kid with problem or issue, regardless of religious background. The last thing a kid need is a preaching.

That policy was dropped when the public got wind of the stupid policy.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Last thing we all need is for some damn preacher in public schools.

I think you are missing the point. What about learning about multiple religions in a class taught by someone other than a preacher and as an elective. No one voted to allow for single faith religion to be taught in public schools as a mandatory class which is what you are describing. So if no one has advocated this, why are you so upset about it?

 

[methylatedghosts]

That's a load of crap.

Eight out of ten families at the school belonged to a church, when I was growing up and go through public schools. There need no religion to be taught in a schools. And why I should learn about religion that I didn't belong to.

The proper place to learn about god and your scripture is in a church. If people to seek religion then seek religion. Don't make religion a compulsory subject, especially in public schools.

If I had children and I was a Christian, then I would perhaps enrolled them in Christian school. But I am not.

Last thing we all need is for some damn preacher in public schools.

Last year, the damn prime minister wanted to force all public schools to have Christian counselors. A school counselor supposed to help a kid with problem or issue, regardless of religious background. The last thing a kid need is a preaching.

That policy was dropped when the public got wind of the stupid policy.

Woah, woah, who said anything about preaching religions?

I'm not advocating any sort of preaching classes, and I'm not talking about just one or two religions!

I'm talking about an unbiased description of what different religions and belief systems are...

So that in a year, a class will cover Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Paganism etc etc etc etc. A single week on each should be plenty to get a basis on each.

A Catholic church only talks catholicism... it leaves out all other viewpoints!! That's not a religious studies class, that's a catholicism class!

Lets say there are 40 weeks in a school year, minus a few weeks at the end and the beginning for settling in/out of class...that's say... 36 or so weeks of work. A school could cover 36 different religions and belief systems briefly and concisely enough to give children a fair idea of what's out there. A single week of practicing a meditation won't hurt anyone...

This is not about attempting to "convert" any kids to any religion, it's about answering the questions children have in as many ways possible, seeing as they all could be "right".

And hey, a week's class could be 4 hours a week.. where is the harm in that?

And why I should learn about religion that I didn't belong to.

What other way do you propose to find out that you belong to the "right" religion for you, if you can't compare all others? If you, as say 12 years old, have been brought up to believe a specific religion, and that one only, you've not had exposure to any others... How could you know if what you believe (not knowing anything else) is true for you, if you've not had all the information available

 

[Amazed]

Deu 6:1 "And this is the command, the laws and right-rulings which יהוה your Elohim has commanded, to teach you to do in the land which you are passing over to possess,
Deu 6:2 so that you fear יהוה your Elohim, to guard all His laws and His commands which I command you, you and your son and your grandson, all the days of your life, and that your days be prolonged.
Deu 6:3 "And you shall hear, O Yisra’ĕl, and shall guard to do, that it might be well with you, and that you increase greatly as יהוה Elohim of your fathers has spoken to you, in a land flowing with milk and honey.
Deu 6:4 "Hear, O Yisra’ĕl: יהוה our Elohim, יהוה is one!
Deu 6:5 "And you shall love יהוה your Elohim with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all your might.
Deu 6:6 "And these Words which I am commanding you today shall be in your heart,
Deu 6:7 and you shall impress them upon your children, and shall speak of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise up,
Deu 6:8 and shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
Deu 6:9 "And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Deu 6:10 "And it shall be, when יהוה your Elohim brings you into the land of which He swore to your fathers, to Aḇraham, to Yitsḥaq, and to Yaʽaqoḇ, to give you great and good cities which you did not build,
Deu 6:11 and houses filled with all kinds of goods, which you did not fill, and wells dug which you did not dig, vineyards and olive trees which you did not plant, and you shall eat and be satisfied –
Deu 6:12 be on guard, lest you forget יהוה who brought you out of the land of Mitsrayim, from the house of bondage.
Deu 6:13 "Fear יהוה your Elohim and serve Him, and swear by His Name.
Deu 6:14 "Do not go after other mighty ones, the mighty ones of the peoples who are all around you,
Deu 6:15 for יהוה your Elohim is a jealous Ěl in your midst, lest the displeasure of יהוה your Elohim burn against you, then He shall destroy you from the face of the earth.
Deu 6:16 "Do not try יהוה your Elohim as you tried Him in Massah.
Deu 6:17 "Diligently guard the commands of יהוה your Elohim, and His witnesses, and His laws which He has commanded you.
Deu 6:18 "And you shall do what is right and good in the eyes of יהוה, that it might be well with you, and you shall go in and possess the good land of which יהוה swore to your fathers,
Deu 6:19 to drive out all your enemies from before you, as יהוה has spoken.
Deu 6:20 "When your son asks you in time to come, saying, ‘What is the meaning of the witnesses, and the laws, and the right-rulings which יהוה our Elohim has commanded you?’
Deu 6:21 then you shall say to your son, ‘We were slaves of Pharaoh in Mitsrayim, and יהוה brought us out of Mitsrayim with a strong hand,
Deu 6:22 and יהוה sent signs and wonders, great and grievous, upon Mitsrayim, upon Pharaoh, and upon all his household, before our eyes.
Deu 6:23 ‘And He brought us out from there, to bring us in, to give us the land of which He swore to our fathers.
Deu 6:24 ‘And יהוה commanded us to do all these laws, to fear יהוה our Elohim, for our good always, to keep us alive, as it is today.
Deu 6:25 ‘And it is righteousness for us when we guard to do all this command before יהוה our Elohim, as He has commanded us.’

 

[Storm]

Was there a point buried in all that Scripture? You do realize that we're talking about education, and not indoctrination, right?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Was there a point buried in all that Scripture? You do realize that we're talking about education, and not indoctrination, right?

It sounds like he's saying that to teach religion was commanded by God, but I'm not sure.

 

[painted wolf]

I was taught about major world religions as part of my "Not the West" world history course in Junior High. I don't see this as being taught religion despite the fact that the major beliefs and values of the religions were covered.

The point was for us to learn to understand how religion and philosophy influence history both in the past and present.

I find it have been one of the most valuable classes I've ever taken.

wa:do

 

[methylatedghosts]

I remember when I was in primary school, a public school, we still had "bible study" class every friday morning. Though about 50% or so was studying the bible, the other 50% was learning about new religions, and we got to draw pictures and do wee homework exercises about these other religions. I remember my one was about Hinduism

But this was phased out, and bible class was stopped when I was about.. oh, 8 or so.. about '94 or '95.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It sounds like he's saying that to teach religion was commanded by God, but I'm not sure.

If that's what he means, then he's free to engage in that all he wants in his church or private religious school. I don't recall any Bible verse that requires me as a non-Christian to subsidize his "God-commanded" teaching with my taxes or give him a public venue to do it in, which for me is the real issue here.

I remember when I was in primary school, a public school, we still had "bible study" class every friday morning.

I remember when I was little, teachers had the option of leading the class in the Lord's Prayer every morning... at a public school. I believe that stopped around 1986 or so.

 

[anders]

Mandatory everywhere, including at least the major global religions, supervised by national agencies so that teaching is unbiased according to the prescribed national curriculum.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Mandatory everywhere, including at least the major global religions, supervised by national agencies so that teaching is unbiased according to the prescribed national curriculum.

What about in Church run schools? Should they be allowed to teach a single faith class? Should they even be allowed to exist?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What about in Church run schools? Should they be allowed to teach a single faith class? Should they even be allowed to exist?

IMO, private schools should be subject to the same curriculum objectives as public schools... i.e. they can have some latitude in how they acheive educational goals, but not the goals themselves. So long as those goals are met and no laws are broken, they should be free to do what they want.

Now, if the government defensibly creates a curriculum objective like "the student should gain a fundamental knowledge of the major global religions", then I think it should be just as mandatory for a private school to teach about them as a public school.

BTW - I'm somewhat on the fence about whether these rules should be uniformly imposed on all private schools, or whether they should be a required part of a voluntary certification/accreditation process (which might make them effectively mandatory, since a diploma from an unaccredited private high school probably wouldn't be worth anything when applying to universities, and the parents would realize this). Given the importance of a good education for children, I'm leaning more toward the former, but I still haven't made up my mind.

 

[methylatedghosts]

I went to a Catholic/Christian high-school, here. We had 4 hours a week for Religious Education, for the whole year. 3/4 of it was from a christian perspective. For 1/4 of the year we briefly covered other religions, but only in our final year (After we'd already had 7 years of christian teaching). These religions were Islam, Hindu, Paganism and Buddhism. Though it was about 3 years previous to this that I'd already decided I wasn't a "christian", some would blame this skim across these other religions to have "led me astray", which to be perfectly honest is a load of bollocks. If anyone's going "astray" it's not because of 1/28th of the entire secondary school life (1/48th of the entire school life, if like most kids, you went through one of the christian primary schools too), briefly looking at what a select few other religions believed - and even then, they were taught as "How does Hinduism differ from Christianity." Though some teachers were so naive that we could just fill in a page of stuff that didn't really say much more than "this is what they believe, but don't worry I'm still a christian" to pass.

Now, I really didn't have too much of a problem with it. The thing was, that this class wasn't credited towards school qualifications as much as other subjects - the sciences, maths, english, social sciences, music and arts. It only gave around 1/2 - 2/3 of the credit though the workload was around the same. If the credit given was substantial, then yeah I wouldn't mind it - even if perhaps the parts of the curriculum selected were mostly christian-based papers.

e.g.
"Grief, death, dying - How does a christian cope?"

EDIT: this course was also compulsory for this school - it took the place of another subject that would have given more credit towards high-school qualifications. It's my view that for this reason, some people didn't get University Entrance when they otherwise would have

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

IMO, private schools should be subject to the same curriculum objectives as public schools... i.e. they can have some latitude in how they acheive educational goals, but not the goals themselves. So long as those goals are met and no laws are broken, they should be free to do what they want.

They are already aren't they?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

They are already aren't they?

They are where I am. I'm not sure about other places.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

They are where I am. I'm not sure about other places.

In the US all schools must meet the Federal standards. Generally, the state run schools meet the minimum while private and church run schools exceed them. There are cases where the state run schools exceed the minimum by a great deal but this isn't the norm.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I wonder what the person who voted other is thinking?