Religion and Classism

[VoidCat]

Also, it won't work. Impractical. Maybe it is okay to say something like that to your younger brother. Sometimes we say some weird things to our younger brothers thinking it's advice.

But this is in my opinion really stupid. I don't think it's some classist thing. That doesn't compute with me.

Well in the US here in North Carolina especially we have abstinence only education. Basically we are told not to have sex until marriage and we aren't really taught proper advice on avoiding pregnancy. That's also unrealistic in most cases to wait till marriage. It doesnt surprise me folk would say if you can't afford to have a child then dont have sex.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I think that the anti-abortion right, for example, probably thinks, generally, that reproduction has less to do with economics than other factors. Primarily, I think they may argue that procreation is spiritually virtuous, as more people in the world would contribute to the critical mass of the potentially saved. Then again, there are plenty on the left now, who talk about expanding housing onto our natural empty spaces. So I wonder if that also overlooks economics, because you have to push food out of less soil

But I generally think you should factor in your economic situation into your reproduction capacity. And there would be plenty of people on either side of the political aisle who think this is true, despite what I wrote in the prior paragraph. I mean, I would feel better about it if I was making another 20k year before I did that. As it stands, I don't feel that I make enough, it's quite simple. So maybe it often comes down to the individual choice, rather than the party or class line choice

 

[ppp]

So where am I wrong?

As I said before, you are not acknowledging or dealing with bodily rights in your dinner analogy. And as I also said before, you are not responding to what was actually said.
Here, I will remind you:
That is not a bodily rights case, and is therefore not analogous to pregnancy.

Imagine that we are both blood type HH and living in Texas. I come to your dinner and am injured when I slip on some water spilled on the kitchen floor. I am hemorrhaging and need blood for the surgery, and you are the only source of blood that I can accept within an 18 hour flight. Should you be legally forced to give me blood?

 

[ppp]

Well in the US here in North Carolina especially we have abstinence only education. Basically we are told not to have sex until marriage and we aren't really taught proper advice on avoiding pregnancy. That's also unrealistic in most cases to wait till marriage. It doesnt surprise me folk would say if you can't afford to have a child then dont have sex.

Oh, you are in NC, too? Yeah, we were told all sorts of mis-information and outright lies about contraception in our "sex education" class. "Women only want to have sex when they are ovulating" was my favorite..

 

[firedragon]

Well in the US here in North Carolina especially we have abstinence only education. Basically we are told not to have sex until marriage and we aren't really taught proper advice on avoiding pregnancy. That's also unrealistic in most cases to wait till marriage. It doesnt surprise me folk would say if you can't afford to have a child then dont have sex.

Have to do more research.

 

[VoidCat]

Oh, you are in NC, too? Yeah, we were told all sorts of mis-information and outright lies about contraception in our "sex education" class. "Women only want to have sex when they are ovulating" was my favorite..

I don't know how long ago was your sex ed but the law now states they can't deliberately give misinformation in NC. However in other states there's no law against it and some I believe even have misinformation in their curriculum

 

[Wildswanderer]

W

For all the people who say “if you can’t afford to have a kid don’t have sex”…Do you think sex should be a class privilege??

Why is the title about religion when you are actually talking about sex?

 

[VoidCat]

Have to do more research.

I just looked:
State Policies on Sex Education in Schools.

It appears some of NC laws have changed recently and they now teach consent which they didnt when I was a kid. There's at least that.

 

[VoidCat]

I just looked:
State Policies on Sex Education in Schools.

It appears some of NC laws have changed recently and they now teach consent which they didnt when I was a kid. There's at least that.

ah let me correct myself rereading the laws. (They are attached in the link I provided it'll download a PDF if you click the link under NC)
They are required now to teach sexual assault and what it is which they werent before. Not on what consent is. This is a big difference as some folk might not consider stuff like coercion(hope I spelt that right) to be assault. Still an improvement over before. They still have to teach abstinence only tho and it isn't required to be comprehensive.

 

[ppp]

I don't know how long ago was your sex ed but the law now states they can't deliberately give misinformation in NC. However in other states there's no law against it and some I believe even have misinformation in their curriculum

It was in the 80s. Nice t know that things have improved (somewhat) since.

 

[Kenny]

It's not just my viewpoint though is it, unless you think I created logic, and I didn't just call it a fallacy, I very specifically said which fallacy you had used, and linked an explanation of the fallacy to support the claim, and yes of course demonstrating you had used a known logical fallacy would refute your claim, by demonstrating it to be irrational, by definition.



Not really, your own link showed they were making a subjective choice, and by any objective standard to claim a billionaire couldn't afford to have children seems dubious.

Afford
verb

1. have enough money to pay for.

Yes... you can use that definition or you can use another definition:
1a: to manage to bear without serious detriment

If one feels like that a child would be a serious detriment to their future... then "I can't afford to have a child"

So my statement stands.

 

[ppp]

W

Why is the title about religion when you are actually talking about sex?

It's one of the common responses from anti-abortion religious people when discussing the financial burden of children on the poor. Especially, but not exclusively, for those who also deplore contraception. Non-religious people who are against abortion don't tend to use that one.

 

[firedragon]

I just looked:
State Policies on Sex Education in Schools.

It appears some of NC laws have changed recently and they now teach consent which they didnt when I was a kid. There's at least that.

What I meant is brother, if abstinence is advice. And if this so called "if you cant afford to have a child don't sex" is good advice. That kind of thing. Abstinence is taught all over the world. So must see if its affecting a society badly in some way or another. Is it a causation! Also, is it really bad advice to tell someone not to have sex if they can't afford a child? I think it's stupid advice. But am I thinking right? Is there any research on it? In the U.S there were 300k child pregnancies during a few years I cant remember exactly how many. Child pregnancies around the world seems to be increasing. There is a lot to think of surrounding this. That is why I said must do research. Hope you understand my dear friend.

 

[VoidCat]

What I meant is brother, if abstinence is advice. And if this so called "if you cant afford to have a child don't sex" is good advice. That kind of thing. Abstinence is taught all over the world. So must see if its affecting a society badly in some way or another. Is it a causation! Also, is it really bad advice to tell someone not to have sex if they can't afford a child? I think it's stupid advice. But am I thinking right? Is there any research on it? In the U.S there were 300k child pregnancies during a few years I cant remember exactly how many. Child pregnancies around the world seems to be increasing. There is a lot to think of surrounding this. That is why I said must do research. Hope you understand my dear friend.

I do. Very good points.

 

[ppp]

Yes... you can use that definition or you can use another definition:
1a: to manage to bear without serious detriment

If one feels like that a child would be a serious detriment to their future... then "I can't afford to have a child"

So my statement stands.

Since the OP is specifically about literal financial resources, your statement, standing or sitting, is irrelevant.

 

[Sheldon]

As I said before, you are not acknowledging or dealing with bodily rights in your dinner analogy. And as I also said before, you are not responding to what was actually said.
Here, I will remind you:
That is not a bodily rights case, and is therefore not analogous to pregnancy.

Imagine that we are both blood type HH and living in Texas. I come to your dinner and am injured when I slip on some water spilled on the kitchen floor. I am hemorrhaging and need blood for the surgery, and you are the only source of blood that I can accept within an 18 hour flight. Should you be legally forced to give me blood?

Pretty good, but perhaps a better analogy would be you needing a 9 month course a dialysis, where their blood is used to treat you, by having them hooked up to a dialysis machine 24/7 for nine moths against their will, to help you stay alive, then have their Perineum torn open at the end for good measure.

 

[Truth in love]

As I said before, you are not acknowledging or dealing with bodily rights in your dinner analogy. And as I also said before, you are not responding to what was actually said.
Here, I will remind you:
That is not a bodily rights case, and is therefore not analogous to pregnancy.

Imagine that we are both blood type HH and living in Texas. I come to your dinner and am injured when I slip on some water spilled on the kitchen floor. I am hemorrhaging and need blood for the surgery, and you are the only source of blood that I can accept within an 18 hour flight. Should you be legally forced to give me blood?

1. No force would be needed, but no so don’t think the government has the right to compel me to save your life. They do however have the right to stop me from killing you.
2. This assumes that an accident put your life in jeopardy.
3. Without medical action you would die. That’s quite different from a person living unless killed.

I’m very much in facile of the concept of bodily rights and that includes JR’s.

 

[Kenny]

Since the OP is specifically about literal financial resources, your statement, standing or sitting, is irrelevant.

Since this is a forum for debate and its about children... I can use it.

But, regardless, in most cases it is just a perspective on when I can afford one. (Using the original intent ) Acknowledging your statement

 

[ppp]

1. No force would be needed, but no so don’t think the government has the right to compel me to save your life.

We are in accord there.

They do however have the right to stop me from killing you.

Do they? We would necessarily be doing a vein to vein transfusion on the way to the hospital. Should you, the donor, be legally compelled to stay attached as long as my life is in danger? I don't think you should.

 

[ppp]

Since this is a forum for debate and its about children... I can use it.

You can attempt to do whatever you want. But you are just punning with polysemes.