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Featured Religion and Atheism

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by usfan, May 26, 2019.

  1. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    ..ok. thanks for sharing your opinions (which seem highly 'religious' to me).
    Everybody gotta believe something..
     
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  2. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    Because you clearly don't understand atheism.

    You misquoted me in an earlier post and gave me reason to think that you prefer to keep believing what you already do, regardless of what's true.
    I get pretty sarcastic under those circumstances.
    Tom
     
  3. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    In a sense, atheist is quite uniform, but only regarding atheism.
    And as you say, outside of atheism, beliefs are quite diverse.
    But he had only one.
     
  4. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

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    My emphases in the following...
    re·li·gion
    /rəˈlijən/
    noun
    1. the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

    religion


    NOUN
    mass noun
    • 1The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    What are the most widely practiced religions of the world?
    The world's 20 largest religions and their number of believers are:

    1. Christianity (2.1 billion)
    2. Islam (1.3 billion)
    3. Nonreligious (Secular/Agnostic/Atheist) (1.1 billion)
    4. Hinduism (900 million)
    5. Chinese traditional religion (394 million)
    6. Buddhism 376 million
    7. Primal-indigenous (300 million)
    8. African traditional and Diasporic (100 million)
    9. Sikhism (23 million)
    10. Juche (19 million)
    11. Spiritism (15 million)
    12. Judaism (14 million)
    13. Bahai (7 million)
    14. Jainism (4.2 million)
    15. Shinto (4 million)
    16. Cao Dai (4 million)
    17. Zoroastrianism (2.6 million)
    18. Tenrikyo (2 million)
    19. Neo-Paganism (1 million)
    20. Unitarian-Universalism (800,000)
    Beliefs about, not beliefs in.
     
  5. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    Why are your opinions, 'true', but mine are beliefs?

    How did i misquote you? I try to be careful, but perhaps i misunderstood. So sarcasm is ok for miscommunication?
     
  6. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    "It is a philosophical opinion, and 'religious' applies"

    The problem with that is lack of understanding of religion. Where did you get the idea religion is philosophical opinion? your experts are idiots. Oh from the horses mouth, religion itself.

    You therefore only understand religion from it's it own statements and factually I would say depending on them for any clarity is questionable at best. The emperical evidence points to that.


    A better way to frame it is religious people believe an infinite number angels can dance on the head of a pin atheists claim there is no proof and factually only a finite amount of angels can dance on the head of a pin. Which one is correct?
     
  7. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    Your dictionary definition is very limited, and does not come close to covering all contexts. Here is Merriam's:

    religion
    noun
    re·li·gion | \ ri-ˈli-jən \
    Definition of religion

    1a: the state of a religious.. a nun in her 20th year of religion
    b(1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural
    (2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
    2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
    3archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
    4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith


    Atheistic beliefs can certainly fall under some of these definitions, DEPENDING ON CONTEXT.

    That was clear in the first post of this thread.
     
  8. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    Sheesh.. everybody's getting so testy, just about word definitions.. sorry to use these trigger words to provoke some people. Perhaps i should bow out, since emotion and indignation seem to accompany the opinions shared..
     
  9. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Well atheism and religion share a common misconception is all I said. Religion is not alone in being just a philosophical fantasy land, secularismis as deeply steeped in it.

    So what you are seeing is valid and it's nonsense. It's like the question what is conciousness? Seems valid to all parties but it isn't. It literally is a symtom of , not a question about. Just like atheism in context to religion. They share certain assumptions but argue the details is all. I could say "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin"? Seems reasonable if you have certain assumptions and yet disagree on the quantity and validity of the others facts what ever may be presented as facts.
     
  10. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.

    I'm not sure how often I encounter that definition. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen those terms defined that way.

    We can do, just as long as it's understood what people mean when they use their terminology.
     
  11. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    All atheists hold ideological beliefs and all religions contain ideological components. Atheistic ideologies tend to contain 'sacred' beliefs (i.e. those of fundamental importance in underpinning their worldview) religions also contain sacred beliefs. These "sacred"/sacred beliefs are subject personal preferences not tangible realities.

    Atheists hold "religious type" beliefs, and religious people hold religious beliefs.

    You can draw many parallels between religious and atheistic ideologies.

    That doesn't make atheism a 'religion' though, and calling it such doesn't really contribute anything to a discussion.
     
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  12. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

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    My belief in us living in a simulated reality where we conscious beings are the simulated ancestors of futuristic post humans conducting an ancestral simulation is a religion somewhat comparable to Matrixism. There are very few followers of Matrixism.

    [​IMG]


     
    #112 Salvador, May 26, 2019
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
  13. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

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    Of those 4, only the 4th could be stretched to possibly include atheists. Bottom line, most dictionary definitions disagree with you.
     
  14. Diamond

    Diamond Member

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    Just wondered why does it matter?
     
  15. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    You're not acknowledging that atheism is a religion. You are claiming that it is. Atheism doesn't meet my definition of a religion, which includes one or more supernatural entities, or deities.

    Atheism is the no answer to the question whether one believes in a god or gods. If that is a belief system or a religion to you, then we use those terms differently.

    Believing in stamps? Whatever you mean, it's not a belief system or a religion.

    No dread or fear. As an atheist, I don't want to be grouped with the religious. I want to be recognized as somebody that learned to navigate life happily without religious beliefs such as a god belief. I consider that a positive achievement, and don't want to be grouped with those that are living a life that I don't want for myself.

    Atheism isn't practiced any more than aleprechaunism and avampirism are. There are no responsibilities and no rituals to practice.

    Who's doing that?

    Atheism isn't science. The former is the unbelief in gods, the latter a program for understanding physical reality. There's not much overlap there.

    My atheism is the basis of no other belief. Nor is it my worldview, which is ore accurately called secular humanism. The believer starts with his god belief and derives all else from that, but the unbeliever cannot conclude anything based on his unbelief.

    Again, I point you to vampires and leprechauns. I presume that you are an aleprechaunist. Is that your worldview? Is it a foundational belief? How much of the rest of your belief set derives from that? Your position on democracy? Your position on global warming? Your feelings about anything else at all?

    It's no different for the atheist, who is probably also an aleprechaunist. Shall we call that two religions?

    Because one is faith-based, and we can dismiss claims made with insufficient support. What dismissive thing would you like to say about somebody telling you that he needs a sound reason to believe anything, and that he has not seen one regarding gods? Feel free to be dismissive about that if you can figure out how.

    Dismiss what? My unbelief? My reasons for it?

    Interesting that you would bring that up. Calling atheism a religion has precisely that effect. It renders the word synonymous with worldview. I already have a word for that - worldview. I choose to let religion refer to a subset of worldviews, those including deities. That's a group of people I have reason to refer to distinctly from those with naturalistic worldviews. There is no value to me in blurring distinctions there.

    American law is irrelevant to those living outside of its jurisdiction. And for those on American soil, it's mostly irrelevant as well, unless you're a secular humanist prisoner trying to sue for rights granted religious prisoners but not to you.

    The Supreme Court also recognized that black people were only 3/5ths of a person. That didn't change biology.

    Why do you keep returning to that fear meme? Can you not conceive of any other reason why atheist would demur at being called religious other than that we are afraid? You don't want to know my complete answer. You would not like it, and I don't want to offend you. Suffice it to say that when I think about being grouped in with the religious, fear is not my reaction.

    So please drop the what are you afraid of meme.

    That's very close to what I would say, but I would say that atheism is the logical and sensible presumption that there is no reason to believe that an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, highly benevolent supernatural deity exists absent supporting evidence, and that what we have is actually contradicting evidence for the reason you suggested - the presence of gratuitous suffering in the world.

    We're welcomed here. Without us, Religious Forums wouldn't be half as interesting.

    Would you rather they changed the name to Irreligious Forums? You'd still be welcome here either way.

    To me, the theodicy problem rules out the possibility of a tri-omni god. It was done in antiquity :

    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
    " - Epicurus - Greek philosopher, BC 341-270
     
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  16. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    You start a church and keep all the money, without even reporting it much less paying any taxes.
    Tom
     
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  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    I am sure that you have already been corrected on this, but nope, atheism is not denying the existence of God.
     
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  18. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    I am not sure about @columbus , but the beliefs I have I can support with objective evidence. I have not seen the theistic having the ability to do that.
     
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  19. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

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    For some of us, it is.
     
  20. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a plan.

    Is it any wonder Trump got elected.
     
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