Religion a confidence game?

[Corvus]

He put me on ignore for saying that. That is hilarious. Could you at least tell him I'm a girl?

I have no patience for those who misrepresent atheist/nihilists like myself. If I was mistaken, I apologize. Madam.

 

[LuisDantas]

It doesn't feel like a scam....when you believe it.

I hope to some day learn a bit more about that perspective.

It can be difficult to deal with opinions that are sincere yet ultimately not suitable to support.

 

[Looncall]

It doesn't feel like a scam....when you believe it.

I'm sure you are correct and that's an important point.

However, that's what one would expect of a scam that has been perfected over millennia.

 

[Deidre]

I'm sure you are correct and that's an important point.

However, that's what one would expect of a scam that has been perfected over millennia.

The saddest thing of all when being where I'm at now, is discovering that I've allowed myself to be scammed. Not just once, either. lol

 

[Looncall]

What kind of misrepresentation is this? The fact I am an atheist and believe only in this life means I value life higher than any theist who thinks this life is merely a test to see if one can enter heaven or not. Laughable.
Knowing that morality is subjective and relative, knowing that existence is meaningless beyond biological imperatives, does not mean one is amoral or without a conscience or social responsibility, such denigration and insult, does not go unnoticed.

Maybe we should cut Rival some slack. Clerics promote these ideas to keep their pews and collection plates full. It's to be expected that their victims hold them.

 

[Corvus]

Maybe we should cut Rival some slack. Clerics promote these ideas to keep their pews and collection plates full. It's to be expected that their victims hold them.

Yes perhaps. In a gesture of goodwill.

 

[Rival]

Maybe we should cut Rival some slack. Clerics promote these ideas to keep their pews and collection plates full. It's to be expected that their victims hold them.

For goodness sake. I am NOT a Christian. I held those Social Darwinian views when I was an atheist. My hypothetical atheist view is that morality is made up. It's not concrete. Our brains are hardwired by evolution and biology is destiny. Guided by might makes right and strongest take over the weakest. This is a view. Rape, for instance, can be justified by using evolutionary psychology. It's the stronger (male) dominating the weaker (female) with intent for pleasure and reproduction (the whole point of life). In order to denote rape as 'bad' one has to bring in an abstract, human concept like 'good' and 'bad'. These abstract concepts do not exist in nature. Humans must needs make them. And so where do they come from, and why? Why should we look after, say, Downs Syndrome people when other animals discard lame young? They likely won't reproduce, they tend to have a large number of medical problems and are just a burden on society. It's just a waste of valuable resources (in this view).

"We are machines built by DNA whose purpose is to make more copies of the same DNA. ... This is exactly what we are for. We are machines for propagating DNA, and the propagation of DNA is a self-sustaining process. It is every living object's sole reason for living." - Dawkins.

 

[Rival]

social Darwinism

"Social Darwinism, the theory that persons, groups, and races are subject to the same laws of natural selection as Charles Darwin had perceived in plants and animals in nature. According to the theory, which was popular in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the weak were diminished and their cultures delimited, while the strong grew in power and in cultural influence over the weak. Social Darwinists held that the life of humans in society was a struggle for existence ruled by “survival of the fittest,” a phrase proposed by the British philosopher and scientist Herbert Spencer."

 

[Quintessence]

For goodness sake. I am NOT a Christian.

Irrelevant. All religion is Christianity, there are no other religions. And all Christianity is a scam, because they are an established institution (which requires money, and having money ever is a scam) that provides services desired by their adherents (which requires people wanting things, and having people want things ever is a scam).

Sorry. I just couldn't stop myself. Sometimes, I just can't...

 

[LuisDantas]

It sure can be constructive to remind ourselves every now and then that there are such things as religions that do not much resemble Christianity.

 

[1AOA1]

What would you think of a business that peddles products that it cannot demonstrate that it can deliver? A scam, right?

But what is said by materialism to be delivered and not delivered in materialism, comes from materialism itself.

 

[LuisDantas]

But what is said by materialism to be delivered and not delivered in materialism, comes from materialism itself.

Uh... what do you mean by that? I have only the foggiest notion. Something along the lines of "materialism does not provide necessary answers, or lies when it does"?

 

[Brickjectivity]

No, scientific reduction is the way in which we make complex systems and interactions easier to study, however it is not the be all and end all. It is useful but not absolute.

''Unlike Newtonian physics, modern research takes into account the complex interactions between the particles, rather than looking at them individually.

Chaotic systems, such as turbulence, weather patterns and even the behavior of crowds are difficult to explain by the process of scientific reductionism.

In addition, isolating one phenomenon and studying it often changes its behavior. For example, it is impossible to measure both the position and speed of an electron, because measuring one affects the other. Therefore, the very purest reductionist principles cannot be used to describe anything.

The common consensus seems to be that scientific reductionism is too flawed to act as a valid philosophical viewpoint. Aside from the problems involved in applying the idea to abstract ideas such as emotion and being, it is very impractical. Many areas, such as quantum physics, are too complicated to describe by studying the individual parts, and doing so does not always give the best picture.'' https://explorable.com/scientific-reductionism

...and in Computer Science reduction refers to the reduction of finite state machines....and in Neural networks it refers to the... Instead of Scientific Reductionism perhaps I should have said 'Reduction of perspective.' You have said plainly that you are completely logical and that only Science is your path to reality, but you can't reduce your life to Science like that. Humans are a biological substrate upon which floats a thin secretion of logic, and such logic is analogous to a lake sitting near an active volcano. The moment someone gets a grudge, takes a pill or falls in love, psht there goes that lake. We enjoy some bright moments, but we aren't logical creatures. Why you should you think yourself the exception

I do not understand what you mean?

I mean religions teach important lessons that Science doesn't, and so does life in general. Therefore you cannot have Science as a religion. Its not one, nor is it a lifestyle. Its just a discipline.

 

[RoaringSilence]

If holy scripture came down like this :

Hi guys , this your daddy, i made all of this in a week and then i made you guys my children.. so have fun , don't fight..and call me if you're in trouble or something. BTW meet jesus he is my son , and he's gonna help you learn how to love and not fight each other. I know if i gave you more than a page worth of lecture , you would start all sorts of fights. so lets make this short and sweet.
Amen.

 

[Quagmire]

I would think that simple common sense would make it apparent there is no reason at all to suppose this.

It would, but remember where you are.

I don't know how one could possibly look at all of the world's religions throughout history and somehow conclude that they are all scams.

No, but someone could NOT look at all the world's religions throughout history and conclude that they're all scams (again, remember where you are).

One would have to have a very special sort of selective observation to possibly find that even remotely reasonable.

"Special" is something we've never been short on here.

But I'm probably being too generous with my expectations for people's understanding of religion. Ignorance about religions is even worse than people's ignorance about the sciences in my country.

And now, thanks to the internet, we get to share it with the rest of the world.

 

[Corvus]

social Darwinism

"Social Darwinism, the theory that persons, groups, and races are subject to the same laws of natural selection as Charles Darwin had perceived in plants and animals in nature. According to the theory, which was popular in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the weak were diminished and their cultures delimited, while the strong grew in power and in cultural influence over the weak. Social Darwinists held that the life of humans in society was a struggle for existence ruled by “survival of the fittest,” a phrase proposed by the British philosopher and scientist Herbert Spencer."

Not for me. I don't believe social dawinism can apply to humane functional societies. I don't know any non nazis who hold this philosophy, no atheist I know personally would give that sociopathic garbage any credit. It belongs to the same set of beliefs as held by supremacists and eugenicists.

 

[George-ananda]

Is there any reason to suppose that religions are not scams?

Certainly not the good ones used intelligently. They teach the path to happiness in this life and beyond. I feel grateful to the teachers; not scammed. My understandings are my most valuable possessions.

 

[Corvus]

Rape, for instance, can be justified by using evolutionary psychology. It's the stronger (male) dominating the weaker (female) with intent for pleasure and reproduction (the whole point of life).

Rape can be justified, as might is right, as can any selfish act that causes harm in a lawless anarchy. We however subscribe to conventional laws and social contracts because it is in our mutual interest to do so.

 

[Corvus]

The moment someone gets a grudge, takes a pill or falls in love, psht there goes that lake.

You don't understand, I barely feel those things. Love never, Hate, rarely, Happiness, don't know what that is, etc. Emotion doesn't move me, whether it is displayed in others or initiated in myself. I can barely register emotion in others, I am not beholden. If I feel any emotion in particular when I interact with others face to face, it's a desire to end the interaction as soon as possible.

 

[Corvus]

I mean religions teach important lessons that Science doesn't, and so does life in general. Therefore you cannot have Science as a religion. Its not one, nor is it a lifestyle. Its just a discipline.

What lessons? It's just a discipline? It is very much more than that. Science is the key to the solutions to all our problems.
Don't give me the excuse to list all that science has done for you and I to date.

Knowledge is salvation. My maternal grandfather, a mason of the Scottish lodge and research chemist, used to say.