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Reincarnation
- Thread starter ^happy
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cardero
Citizen Mod
On that note, the tradition that I practice believes in karma and reincarnation, too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_Buddhism
I am also one who believes the reason why hardships that makes a person suffer is the result from karma from a past life if the person is virtuous in a current life. However, I don't view this belief as "blaming the victim" despite the fact that this is one of the main criticisms of my tradition. It is actually quite empowering IMO.
The teaching of karma and reincarnation reminds me that we are all not that much different (in fact, we are all each other.......how's that for mysticism?), and that it ultimately empowers me with personal responsibility. I also focus less on the actions and behaviors of others (although I do not ignore others' actions), and much more on how I behave.
Peace,
Mystic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_Buddhism
I am also one who believes the reason why hardships that makes a person suffer is the result from karma from a past life if the person is virtuous in a current life. However, I don't view this belief as "blaming the victim" despite the fact that this is one of the main criticisms of my tradition. It is actually quite empowering IMO.
The teaching of karma and reincarnation reminds me that we are all not that much different (in fact, we are all each other.......how's that for mysticism?), and that it ultimately empowers me with personal responsibility. I also focus less on the actions and behaviors of others (although I do not ignore others' actions), and much more on how I behave.
Peace,
Mystic
cardero
Citizen Mod
I dont think I would use words like hardships, suffering or tragedies. I would use words like experiences or challenges and it seems everyone encounters their fair share of these (much of it depends on how people handle them).
MysticSangha, does your religion feel that these hardships are assigned or are they an individuals choice?
I also believe that if karma is attached to reincarnation that there is a balance or order to it.
cardero said:
Excellent reply, and I can see why the usage of words like hardship, suffering, and the like might make our tradition not very enticing.
Past karma that is catching up with me from past behavior in this life or a previous one I don't believe is ever assigned. That would imply an entity who is in charge, and only assigns retribution to whomever this entity wants. I see it is being much like the law of gravity or the laws of thermodynamics. Karma simply is. It operates on it's own.
I have continued to be drawn to this view because it discourages any kind of weaseling out by people of facing the transgressions they have committed on other sentient beings............allegiance to certain deities have no bearing on being faced with bad behaviors to others, and therefore everyone is on an equal playing field. No one is excused from harming others.
Peace,
Mystic
I think all souls were created at the same time. Not all souls decided to get caught up in this earth plane. Most looked at this place and said No Thanks.kai said:
A soul visiting for the first time would be considered a new soul. Souls that have returned since the beginning would be old souls.
St0ne
Active Member
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/member.php?u=5236MysticSang'ha I find it interesting that Buddhism is critisised for being pessemistic on it's views of suffering, often the critisism comes from christians who hold the belief that all humans are sinners are born into sin and they cannot escape it by their own means.
Personally I find that pessemistic.
Personally I find that pessemistic.
Feathers in Hair
World's Tallest Hobbit
Dianic Paganism, which I practice, allows for reincarnation, as does the Pictish tradition. However, pagan beliefs are as diverse as the pagans themselves, so not all pagans believe in it.
St0ne said:
The concept of original sin..........yes. Is that the reason for baptism in order to cleanse the spirit and to be reborn?
Actually, the way I interpret original sin comes closer to past life karma than at first glance. To me, if I think of original sin, I think of the phrase, "unfinished business," and not "evil."
I think we find the concept of the inability to escape sin ourselves as pessimistic because we do not put importance on the belief in a deity to save us. This is exactly why they find our views as pessimistic, because the belief in God, and submitting to the will of God, is very important to them. To them, not depending on God would make them feel lost.
That's my guess. I don't know how correct I am in my assumption, though.
Back to topic: I don't follow the reasoning that new souls are created along with old souls returning. I do believe in "older" souls who have returned to the human realm, but to think that souls are created is a stretch in my tradition. What we DO believe, is that animals and other beings in the lower realms have souls, too, that are beginningless. And they have the opportunities to be reborn into a human realm after they die if their own karma allows them to do so.
Lower realms also include the hell-realm and the ghost-realm. Anyone suffering in these realms have the opportunity to be reborn in our own realm, which is the only realm that offers the chance to reach enlightenment.
Our theology also teaches that higher realms exist. There is the jealous god-realm and the god-realm (where very little suffering exists). Those who inhabit these realms have everything they could ever want, and so indulgences toward themselves are offered at every turn. However, these beings are not offered the opportunity to attain enlightenment/liberation. Only the human-realm offers it, and therefore these beings have the opportunity to be reborn into our realm if their karma allows them to do so.
Not all Buddhists follow this cosmology, however. We are quite diverse, too.
Peace,
Mystic
If anyone is interested in Reincarnation, as it has been seen to be mentioned or touched upon in the Bible would do well to look at:- http://www.reincarnation.ws/biblical_references_to_reincarnation/biblical_references_to_reincarnation.html
A short extract from the above site, to put the various beliefs into perspective:-
Reincarnation Statistics
Reincarnation is also referred to as the transmigration of the soul or rebirth. 20% of the world's religious population are either Hindu or Buddhist with both religions believing in reincarnation. Further, according to a recent Fox News poll, 25% of Americans believe in reincarnation. When we look at findings that span European convictions from 1968 - 1990, we see a steady increase in the acceptance of reincarnation. In 1968 23% of people in France believed in reincarnation; in 1990 that figure had risen to 28%. In Britain it rose during the same period from 18% to 30%; in the Netherlands from 10% to 18%.
Reincarnation is Intuitive - Cyclic
It is obvious to us that everything in nature moves in cycles. We have the cycle of the seasons complete with birth, growth, fruition and death - spring, summer, fall and winter. There is the daily cycle of day and night. The planets cycle about the sun and the sun revolves around the center of the Milky Way galaxy. We see cycles in the process of our own daily lives - what goes around comes around. The Vedas (Hindu scriptures) tell us that the universe is born from a violent explosion, expands and then contracts, all of this taking trillions of years and then the process is repeated ad infinitum. These cycles are referred to as God breathing - and, oh yes, there is the cycle of our own breathing and the beating of our heart. In a recent Discover magazine, such a cycling of the universe from Big Bang to death and then another Big Bang rebirth was proposed as the occurrence of one parallel universe bumping into another with the cycle continuing without end. We can see that reincarnation appeals to old fashioned common sense.
We are Not the Body
Reincarnation is easier to grasp if we understand that we are not our bodies. However, the mind is in the habit of thinking the reverse. Thus it is difficult for us to imagine departing with one body and then assuming another because we blindly and habitually have come to identify ourselves with the body - this body - the one we see in the mirror everyday. It is correct to say, "My body." This reveals that the body is distinct from the owner. In fact, our true nature is pure awareness. We cannot be the observer (awareness) of an object (the body) and also be that object. In the equation of our own personal existence, we are that which is aware. Our true nature is awareness itself. In the English language the closest term to describe this is I AM (Exodus 3:13-14). In Sanskrit it is Sat-Chit-Ananda or Being-Awareness-Bliss. Our soul is fashioned from I AM and not from our body. In Genesis 1:27 we are told that we are made in God's image which is to say we are beings of spirit and not flesh (in John 4:24 we are told that God is a spirit).
We have discovered from Quantum Physics, that matter depends on an observer (awareness) for its existence and not visa versa. So awareness does not arise from the body or brain. Our bodies arise as manifestations in the field of our own primal awareness. The body and brain filter the experiences which appear on the movie screen of our pure awareness.
The School of Life
The soul is evolving. Each soul is most likely without beginning just as it has no end. Souls have evolved from beginningless time. Going back we see we have been animals, plants, one celled organisms and beyond. Most of us have been humans many times. We gain experience and grow as we traverse our incarnations. Each life is a day in God's school room.
What are We Learning?
We are learning to be as God is. To be perfect even as God is perfect (Mat. 5:48). When one has become the perfection that God is, no further births and deaths are necessary. We graduate. The exception would be to continue to incarnate for the well being of those still studying in the schoolroom of earth. These souls are called Bodhisattvas in Sanskrit. Jesus, Buddha and Krishna were such souls. They were already perfect in God but came here out of compassion as teachers.
It is our desires that fuel our rounds of births and deaths. Our desires continue through death and demand another body to act as the instrument for the fulfillment of our desires. Thus spiritual wisdom is often referred to as the end of desires. Then we abide in God, in the peace that is beyond understanding. The Buddha's Four-Fold Truths are:
1. Life in this world is suffering (mental and emotional suffering; separation and isolation; fear and anxiety)
2. Desire is the cause of suffering
3. Ending desires brings an end to suffering
4. The Eightfold Path brings and end to desires
A short extract from the above site, to put the various beliefs into perspective:-
Reincarnation Statistics
Reincarnation is also referred to as the transmigration of the soul or rebirth. 20% of the world's religious population are either Hindu or Buddhist with both religions believing in reincarnation. Further, according to a recent Fox News poll, 25% of Americans believe in reincarnation. When we look at findings that span European convictions from 1968 - 1990, we see a steady increase in the acceptance of reincarnation. In 1968 23% of people in France believed in reincarnation; in 1990 that figure had risen to 28%. In Britain it rose during the same period from 18% to 30%; in the Netherlands from 10% to 18%.
Reincarnation is Intuitive - Cyclic
It is obvious to us that everything in nature moves in cycles. We have the cycle of the seasons complete with birth, growth, fruition and death - spring, summer, fall and winter. There is the daily cycle of day and night. The planets cycle about the sun and the sun revolves around the center of the Milky Way galaxy. We see cycles in the process of our own daily lives - what goes around comes around. The Vedas (Hindu scriptures) tell us that the universe is born from a violent explosion, expands and then contracts, all of this taking trillions of years and then the process is repeated ad infinitum. These cycles are referred to as God breathing - and, oh yes, there is the cycle of our own breathing and the beating of our heart. In a recent Discover magazine, such a cycling of the universe from Big Bang to death and then another Big Bang rebirth was proposed as the occurrence of one parallel universe bumping into another with the cycle continuing without end. We can see that reincarnation appeals to old fashioned common sense.
We are Not the Body
Reincarnation is easier to grasp if we understand that we are not our bodies. However, the mind is in the habit of thinking the reverse. Thus it is difficult for us to imagine departing with one body and then assuming another because we blindly and habitually have come to identify ourselves with the body - this body - the one we see in the mirror everyday. It is correct to say, "My body." This reveals that the body is distinct from the owner. In fact, our true nature is pure awareness. We cannot be the observer (awareness) of an object (the body) and also be that object. In the equation of our own personal existence, we are that which is aware. Our true nature is awareness itself. In the English language the closest term to describe this is I AM (Exodus 3:13-14). In Sanskrit it is Sat-Chit-Ananda or Being-Awareness-Bliss. Our soul is fashioned from I AM and not from our body. In Genesis 1:27 we are told that we are made in God's image which is to say we are beings of spirit and not flesh (in John 4:24 we are told that God is a spirit).
We have discovered from Quantum Physics, that matter depends on an observer (awareness) for its existence and not visa versa. So awareness does not arise from the body or brain. Our bodies arise as manifestations in the field of our own primal awareness. The body and brain filter the experiences which appear on the movie screen of our pure awareness.
The School of Life
The soul is evolving. Each soul is most likely without beginning just as it has no end. Souls have evolved from beginningless time. Going back we see we have been animals, plants, one celled organisms and beyond. Most of us have been humans many times. We gain experience and grow as we traverse our incarnations. Each life is a day in God's school room.
What are We Learning?
We are learning to be as God is. To be perfect even as God is perfect (Mat. 5:48). When one has become the perfection that God is, no further births and deaths are necessary. We graduate. The exception would be to continue to incarnate for the well being of those still studying in the schoolroom of earth. These souls are called Bodhisattvas in Sanskrit. Jesus, Buddha and Krishna were such souls. They were already perfect in God but came here out of compassion as teachers.
It is our desires that fuel our rounds of births and deaths. Our desires continue through death and demand another body to act as the instrument for the fulfillment of our desires. Thus spiritual wisdom is often referred to as the end of desires. Then we abide in God, in the peace that is beyond understanding. The Buddha's Four-Fold Truths are:
1. Life in this world is suffering (mental and emotional suffering; separation and isolation; fear and anxiety)
2. Desire is the cause of suffering
3. Ending desires brings an end to suffering
4. The Eightfold Path brings and end to desires
Moses the God Archetype*
Active Member
Then why my friend are you on a thread discussing reincarnation?anders said:
Moses the God Archetype*
Active Member
kai said:
m: Kai all of us are old souls as it were....until we reach a point of no return and mature to a higher point in our spiritual development thus released from the wheel of samsara (birth and rebirth) or this mundane material reality.:flower2:
BruceDLimber
Well-Known Member
^happy said:
Very simple: in the Baha'i scriptures! The book Some Answered Questions states that reincarnation doesn't exist and goes on to explain in detail why.
You can see this at www.reference.bahai.org by searching under the Writings of 'Abdu'l-Baha.
Best,
Bruce
Haven't you guessed? I'm interested in religions, and especially the south Asian ones.anders said:
As to the question which religions believe in rebirth, some have been mentioned, like Hinduism and Buddhism. Add Sikhism and Jainism, and Christianity (but only one rebirth there.)
Has anyone here ever considered the possibility that the soul is not indivisible. Or do you think that indivisibility is part of the definition of soul.
Is it possible that parts of the soul could have different destinations or different fates; that different aspects could separate at the time of death. Could my fears be stuck here in this existence until they are worked out, while my love is free to move on to a higher plane? Perhaps my sense of irony could be reincarnated into a comedian from Chicago, and my love of chocolate could wind up in Belgium.
What do you think? Is it possible? Is it silly? Is it kind of scary? Or is it a wonderful thought?
Is it possible that parts of the soul could have different destinations or different fates; that different aspects could separate at the time of death. Could my fears be stuck here in this existence until they are worked out, while my love is free to move on to a higher plane? Perhaps my sense of irony could be reincarnated into a comedian from Chicago, and my love of chocolate could wind up in Belgium.
What do you think? Is it possible? Is it silly? Is it kind of scary? Or is it a wonderful thought?