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Reincarnation

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by ^happy, Jul 3, 2006.

  1. ^happy

    ^happy Member

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    If our souls were created in the likeness of father with powers and free will.
    Once our monkey/man dies does our soul still have free will.
    If it does, is it unreasonable to comprehend that our soul could choose rebirth.
    A soul is not a human. But enters Humans at birth.
    Where does it say that a soul can do this only once.
     
  2. fromthe heart

    fromthe heart Well-Known Member

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    Perspnally I believe that our time on earth is a time of making choices for going beyond this life into our eternity. Our souls/spirits destiny is determined by our earthly choices...we choose to go to paradise or we choose to go to torment...once we die though our spirit has no more choice...we have determined that in our earthly life and free will is done.

    There is a place in the Bible that says it's appointed ONCE for man to die...if you don't get the exact verse to look it up for yourself and would like me to find it I will.:)
     
  3. MysticSang'ha

    MysticSang'ha Big Squishy Hugger
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    That would quite possibly be Hebrews 9:27:


    "And just as it is appointed for mortals to die once, and after that the judgement, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin, but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him. (Hebrews 9: 27-28)




    I do have a different take on this verse. In this incarnation, I will only die once, and after this death, there will be a judgement on my life. There are other verses in the Bible which suggest and/or allow interpretation for reincarnation:



    Malachi 4:5 "See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes."

    Matthew 11:11-15 "I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it. For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. He who has ears, let him hear."


    Matthew 17:10-13 "The disciples asked him, 'Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?' Jesus replied, 'To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.' Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist."

    Luke 9:7-8 "Now Herod the tetrarch heard about all that was going on. And he was perplexed, because some were saying that John had been raised from the dead, others that Elijah had appeared, and still others that one of the prophets of long ago had come back to life."



    Even Origen in his De Principiis claims:


    "The soul has neither beginning nor end… [They] come into this world strengthened by the victories or weakened by the defeats of their previous lives."




    Revelations also describes the "Lake of Fire" as being "the second death."




    Galatians also describes the concept of divine justice (what I call karma) by exclaiming "what you sow, so you shall reap." Divine justice cannot be applied realistically if a person sins and sins and sins and dies, within one single lifetime, and does not need to face his or her own transgressions.​



    I agree in that this lifetime for me will only happen once, but for finite sins to be punished for an eternity does not logically follow the concept of divine justice. Therefore, in my tradition, if I have not purified my karma by experiencing hardships and/or acting with kindness and compassion to others, then I will find myself in a future life continuing this journey. The good news is that we all will find ourselves individually perfected some time in the near or distant future.​




    Peace,
    Mystic​
     
  4. ^happy

    ^happy Member

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    From the heart,
    If I understand you correctly you believe man has free wil, but the soul does not?
     
  5. ^happy

    ^happy Member

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    Hebrews 9:27 it is appointed unto men once to die, after this the judgement. The soul does not die. Only the monkey/man dies.
    Why would it not be possible for one result of the judgement to be that the soul would be required to be reborn to learn more?
    I do thank all for their input.
     
  6. Moses the God Archetype*

    Moses the God Archetype* Active Member

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    :eek:m: Its according to your acts here on earth.......but you must remember when the body dies the soul must return until its acquired karma has expired, manifested and unmanifested until that occurs the wheel of samsara continues for the embodied jiva, as far as the jiva not having free will when it leaves this mortal coil it is not so.....if the acquired karma has not expired for that jiva, it is compelled to come back to this earthly mundane existence until it is, for that in part is one of the many lessons a jiva must learn in order to achieve the Godhead....that is krsna's gift to us all but its up to us if we want to go there or not.:flower2:
     
  7. Moses the God Archetype*

    Moses the God Archetype* Active Member

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    :eek:m: Hahahahahahaha...(estatic laughter):biglaugh:, i like the terminology HAPPY many blessings to you.:flower2:
     
  8. anders

    anders Well-Known Member

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    This presupposes the existence of "souls". I don't believe in them as something human separate from the body and its functions. Thus, I don't believe in reincarnation, rebirth, metempsychosis, resurrection or any other name for their recycling.
     
  9. ^happy

    ^happy Member

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    Anders,
    Are you saying you don't believe in souls or you believe in them you just believe they die with the human?
     
  10. ^happy

    ^happy Member

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    To MysticSang'ha and Moses the God Archetype:
    I really enjoyed both your posts, very informative for me.
     
  11. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

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    But not everyone believes that our souls were created in the likeness of anyone besides ourselves. :)
     
  12. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    I personally believe that we can choose to progress to a higher realm after we die. But we do that through the choices we make during our lifetime. I cannot imagine wanting to be reborn as another lifeform. Instead, I look forward to being able to progress forever as the person I am right now.
     
  13. Carlos Andres Restrepo

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    does anyone of you, really know for sure that you have a soul?
    why do we believe in this in first place?
    i think is for arrogance, because of fear..-i could be wrong-

    but to me, many of us believe in a soul because we fear the fact of dissapearing, of not "being"
    i think, that, when you believe that you have to have a soul, is a very selfish way of thinking, because you want to exist as you are or beyond of what you are, but "exist" somehow...

    have you really perceive your own soul? i mean, is it hard to accept that we might die, and we will not have anything "inside" or beyond our bodies, but instead, our molecules and atoms will integrate we the universe and they will take the form of something else?

    why don't we, instead of asking ourselve, if the soul has a free will, or if we are going to heaven or hell, or if we reencarnate, why don't we see if we have a soul. why do we lose our time thinking about heaven and hell and other lifes? we should see, first, if we have such thing called soul, and it doesn't matter if it takes our whole life, but at least, we will find if it was true or not, that we had a soul.

    do you have a soul? how so?
     
  14. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

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    Do I have a soul? I don't know. If I don't, I'm puzzled as to what it is that's doing the remembering of what I've been before. Do I particularly care? Not really. I acknowledge that I can no more prove that I have a soul than I could that there are gods, or that everything there is creates the nature of the divine. Since my religion and mentality aren't dependant on these things being certain to exist, I don't think it's my battle.
     
  15. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Well, you might start by defining the word "soul." I'm convinced that each of us is a living soul, i.e. a physical body infused by an immortal spirit, but I may be using the words in an entirely different way than you are. My belief doesn't stem from fear or from arrogance. Why do you think it would?
     
  16. Carlos Andres Restrepo

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    uhmm, well i think i go for the definition of that spirit we have "inside"...you know what i mean, the trascendent life etc...

    i do not think you would, i just like to generalize sometimes, just because i like to crate debate and learn from it...however, i know that a lot of people might not believe in a soul out of fear...however, don't you think many people does it, because they love the idea of being "inmortal" ?

    i hate that everyone thinks of being inmortal, that is what i do not like of the beliefs of a soul, or an afterlife. If they are true, i would not like to question myself much about it...i mean, it would be great, but, people just rely on the idea that "oh, there will be another life"......"i shall do nothing, God will know how to do His own things...so we just stop living for ourselves and for the well being of others, because we just think god will take charge of it....

    and, ofcourse, all what i say might be wrong, because, all of my ideas come from my own feelings that now i contradict....

    anyway, just find your own answers,,,and please, enjoy this life as if it is the only one you have...make a heaven out of it:beach:
     
  17. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    So, kind of a life force, then? Would that be an accurate way of putting it?

    Well, I can't speak for a lot of people; I can only speak for myself. I don't believe I have an immortal spirit just because the idea appeals to me. I believe it because it's the only logical way for me to understand my existence here and now. Of course, I believe in a Higher Power, so that would explain some of my feelings. I just can't conceive of the idea that He would have created me to live for 80 or 90 years and then suddenly cease to exist. That would be pointless in my opinion, and I don't believe God's plan and purpose for me is pointless. I realize, of course, that this is totally opposite to the way you see it, and I'm fine with your lack of belief.

    Well, even though I believe in an afterlife, I definitely don't see it from that perspective.
     
  18. kai

    kai ragamuffin

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    do you think new souls are created and are some of us old souls
     
  19. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Who are you asking? Anyone in particular?
     
  20. mattp

    mattp Member

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    the soul is not immortal. Ezekial 18:4 the soul dies.
     
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