1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Reincarnation

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Spartan, Jun 2, 2019.

  1. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Messages:
    1,508
    Ratings:
    +292
    Religion:
    christian
    Christianity was purged by political church leaders, by those who Paul called 'natural': 14"But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised."
     
  2. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2015
    Messages:
    3,768
    Ratings:
    +1,152
    Religion:
    Swedenborgianism
    No doubt, of course, but there could have been an earliest point where life emerged. From this point, life naturally descended. Right?

    At each point where life emerges from non-life, life could have naturally descend from a commonly shared initial ancestor. Right?
     
  3. Kapalika

    Kapalika EDM dancing gaygirl mystic
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2015
    Messages:
    2,016
    Ratings:
    +1,384
    Religion:
    Shaivism & LHP
    Not directed at me, but that thing about Yahweh loving the world and sending Yeshua to save us seemed pretty fictious to me, as is their concept of sin. Yahweh is pretty wrathful yo
     
  4. Kapalika

    Kapalika EDM dancing gaygirl mystic
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2015
    Messages:
    2,016
    Ratings:
    +1,384
    Religion:
    Shaivism & LHP
    Yes but reincarnation doesn't address how life was created. That's been my point. Neither does reincarnation nessisitate a supernatural deity, not that they are mutually exclusive.
     
  5. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Messages:
    19,251
    Ratings:
    +7,347
    Religion:
    Hinduism, Vaishnava
    Which is as it should be. As the Dalai Lama said, if science were to prove some tenets of Buddhism to be incorrect, Buddhism would have t be re-examined. The same to be said for Hinduism. If science somehow proved the Krishna and/or any of the gods, reincarnation, or any other matter of Hindu faith don't exist, I'd have to re-examine. However, I think it more likely that science (any discipline) would prove the validity.

    Of course I don't want to see science disprove the beliefs I have. If we're talking about needing proof of something I believe in, then no, I don't require it. I'm working purely on faith. However, modern theoretical physics is beginning to line up with, or discover some truth in what Hinduism has held about the nature of existence and cosmology for 5,000 years, and even support it.

    Maybe the rishis were more in tune with the natural world, or maybe because they devoted their lives to meditation, they had plenty of time to mentally masturbate on it. If it turns out that our gods really are blue-skinned benevolent extraterrestrials, hey, that's cool too. And maybe the rishis did get their knowledge from some blue dude with multiple arms. Who knows?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2015
    Messages:
    3,768
    Ratings:
    +1,152
    Religion:
    Swedenborgianism
    Yes, we both agree reincarnation neither explains anything nor needs to exist at all whatsoever.
     
  7. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    6,280
    Ratings:
    +6,928
    Religion:
    Advaitist Hindu
    Certainly a plausible theory. Since I have no objective evidence to the contrary, you’ll have no argument from me.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    6,280
    Ratings:
    +6,928
    Religion:
    Advaitist Hindu
    *smiles* Just because @Shadow Wolf and I are not you doesn’t make us the same person...

    ...at least in relative reality. ;)
     
  9. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Messages:
    19,251
    Ratings:
    +7,347
    Religion:
    Hinduism, Vaishnava
    That's true, but it doesn't negate the concept of Brahman. To fully grasp the concept of Brahman you have to divorce yourself from the duality that is the Abrahamic paradigm. To fully grasp the concept of Brahman you have to embrace both pantheism and panentheism. The Mahāvākyam (lit. Great Sayings) of the upanishads clearly state this, but it's a hard concept for the non-Hindu mind to grasp:
    • aham brahmāsmi - "I am Brahman", or "I am Divine"[7] (Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 1.4.10 of the Yajur Veda)
    • tat tvam asi - "Thou art That" (Chandogya Upanishad 6.8.7 of the Sama Veda), meaning "you are Brahman".
    • ayam ātmā brahma - "This Self (Atman) is Brahman" (Mandukya Upanishad 1.2 of the Atharva Veda)
    • brahma satyam jagan mithyā - Brahman is real; the world is illusory - Brihadaranyaka Upanishad Vivekachudamani
    • sarvam khalvidam brahma - All of this is brahman - Chāndogya Upaniṣad 3.14.1 (we already discussed)
    Heck, it's a hard concept for Hindus to grasp. When we do, we obtain moksha, liberation from the cycle of rebirth.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,664
    Ratings:
    +1,027
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    53,438
    Ratings:
    +17,603
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    What? I haven't got being one person figured out and now you're implying I have to do more than that? I'm not adopting your fashion style, however and btw. :p
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. Kapalika

    Kapalika EDM dancing gaygirl mystic
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2015
    Messages:
    2,016
    Ratings:
    +1,384
    Religion:
    Shaivism & LHP
    It seems a lot of the people including the OP are trying to "debunk" reincarnation on this thread are arguing from ignorance on the topic. Reincarnation is about how streams of conciousness / atma transfer from different bodies. It doesn't have anything to do with gods or the origin of life. Neither is there a "first" to be reincarnated, since conciousness precedes the physical universe and is eternal (speaking from a Hindu perspective here).

    People need to stop treating Hinduism like it's Christanity. Our gods did not create atma or reincarnation, for those of us who believe in them (there are atheist sects of Hinduism). Atma precedes all the gods, precedes any living being, and precedes the creation of the physical universe. It's always existed. Reincarnation is just it's journey through the universe with the bodies as the foundation. It existed before any life or even any god came into being.

    Neither is reincarnation about always improving, since often the act of incarnating itself after moksha brings the atma back to a lower state of conciousness.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  13. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    6,280
    Ratings:
    +6,928
    Religion:
    Advaitist Hindu
    Unless our perceived reality is illusory...a manifestation of pure consciousness. :)
     
  14. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    8,549
    Ratings:
    +1,423
    Religion:
    Light Impressed with Love
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  15. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    6,280
    Ratings:
    +6,928
    Religion:
    Advaitist Hindu
    ^^THIS bears repeating.

    It is my understanding that purpose of reincarnation is to experience. There is nothing about the Atman that needs improvement. Atman is Brahman.*

    *Check local listings.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Creative Creative x 1
  16. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    53,438
    Ratings:
    +17,603
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    That's not very impressive when it comes from a pro-Bible source. What about Egyptian sources that record the plagues? A massive loss in slaves and life? But, as the story is told, we can't even find evidence they were pursued. All my source does is speculate and then use the Bible to support those speculations. Why would the Egyptians give a damn about Jewish things in such a way as to make Egyptian things resemble Jewish things and not Egyptian? Those able probably referred to what they wrote, not Jewish icons and stories.
    So? I intentionally kept my list brief.
     
  17. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    53,438
    Ratings:
    +17,603
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    Those kids are known for failing to impress those with the knowledge to know if they are reporting accurate details or making things up. Turns out, historians and such are pretty good at pointing out how their stories cannot be true, and it often revolves around details such as dietary choices, animals in the area, and other culture thimgs these kids get wrong because they dont know and most people dont know enough to pick out erroneous details like thay.
     
  18. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    8,549
    Ratings:
    +1,423
    Religion:
    Light Impressed with Love
    children shouldn't be having any kind of memories apart from their experience. that is part of the consciousness studies issues. people shouldn't be dreaming about things they have never experienced; if the brain creates consciousness solely from experience.
     
  19. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    53,438
    Ratings:
    +17,603
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    The universe most definitely had a beginning and one day will end. An eternal universe without either is a fundamental violation of the laws of physics. And of course there would have to, by necessity, be a first person as life itself ultimately requires a first.
     
  20. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    53,438
    Ratings:
    +17,603
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    We have books, tv, radio, documentaries, how can these kids not have some inkling of an awareness of at least some culture that existed in times past? As for consciousness, it is the result of complex brain and neuron activity, not experience.
     
Loading...