Reincarnation = The Gift of Life

[RamaRaksha]

I didn't limit this thread to Hindus or Buddhists because i simply do not believe in God or Gods that would divide their own children. We are ALL Her children and Her laws apply to ALL of us. We ALL can savor the Gift of Life, of Reincarnation, regardless of religion or non-religion

What i wish to say with this post is to convince my fellow Hindus and Buddhists that Life is a Gift. Because life has been so harsh, so difficult it is natural to hope for a better afterlife and religions were more than happy to create magic lands of plenty in the hereafter. Those lands are a myth. As i have posted before such a life is available but not for humans - as Bheema berets his brother after the war, Yudhistira who wanted to give up everything and go away to the forest - if giving up everything is the path to Moksha then mountains and trees would have obtained Moksha a long time ago. A mountain or a tree does not suffer - they live in perpetual joy and happiness - if you want a life of joy and happiness realize where you are headed

Life, as a human being, comes pre-packaged with pain and suffering. As i have posted before also - we were safe, comforted, happy and in bliss in the womb and then suddenly tossed out into a cold, hard world.

Pain begins, but so does life

Again as we grow older, we leave the nest - again we get to face life on our own - the comforts of home, mother and father doing everything for us, protecting us, sheltering us, are gone! But we know we can't stay in the nest, we must grow up, become Adults

That is what Hindus are trying to tell us with the concept of Reincarnation - it is time to grow up - we can't crawl back into the womb, we can't stay children forever

We have been conditioned to look upon life as something bad - like a jail sentence, get it over with and run away to magic lands in the sky. Life is not a jail sentence, it is a Gift

We need to stop looking at life from the coward's point of view, from the weak man's point of view, instead we need to look at life from the Strong person's point of view, from the warrior's point of view

Hinduism continuously stresses that we lose the "I" - let us lose the "I" - basically - How will "I" be happy? Who will make "Me" happy? Where can "I" go to be happy? We get a whole new perspective on life

 

[George-ananda]

You are entitled to your thoughts but don't think what you are saying represents any mainstream school of Hinduism. It reads like one man on his own tangent.

 

[RamaRaksha]

You are entitled to your thoughts but don't think what you are saying represents any mainstream school of Hinduism. It reads like one man on his own tangent.

I thought we decide that you would not reply to my posts. I will keep my end of the agreement, could you please do the same? thanks

 

[RamaRaksha]

To anyone who is reading - we do need new thoughts - it's not just reading the same old texts - let us remember that these are people too just like you and me living a few thousand years ago who wrote down their thoughts. Hindu texts are very varied - from the Vedas to the Vedanta - the books are very different - written by different people at different times. Their life was different - they led a very harsh life and that shaped their view of life and the after life and so they took the teachings and interpreted them thru the lens of their own lifetimes

Our life is different - we need to take a fresh look at these teachings. Hinduism is the only major faith to say God is Female. As time went on the position of women suffered - in later religions it became an affront to say God is Female. God must be a male! Today in India women do not have the same rights as a man, but that is not what the faith is teaching us

That is my point here - my hope is to change centuries-old views. I feel that i am not saying anything new - these views have been said already, unfortunately they have been misinterpreted

 

[George-ananda]

I thought we decide that you would not reply to my posts. I will keep my end of the agreement, could you please do the same? thanks

It wasn't for your attention I replied, I just didn't want others to think this is Hinduism. It was really meant for others.

 

[LuisDantas]

(...)

That is my point here - my hope is to change centuries-old views. I feel that i am not saying anything new - these views have been said already, unfortunately they have been misinterpreted

I can only assume that the original views were not quite as mystified as what seems to be now mainstream in some circles. But people tend to reincide.

When it comes down to it, reincarnation is such an odd idea that it is weird to expect people to believe in it in any literal way. And I see no reason to assume that it used to be any different originally.

 

[RamaRaksha]

I can only assume that the original views were not quite as mystified as what seems to be now mainstream in some circles. But people tend to reincide.

When it comes down to it, reincarnation is such an odd idea that it is weird to expect people to believe in it in any literal way. And I see no reason to assume that it used to be any different originally.

Basically reincarnation means Life - not sure why you think it is weird. Don't you think lands of plenty in the afterlife is more weird? Yes they are more tempting and sounds good the to ear - who doesn't want the good life? How can one convince a person not to invest with Madoff - he of the "i will make great returns regardless of the market direction" and invest with a trusted company that tells you that you might lose it all?

Basically choosing Reincarnation means choosing Life, warts and all - Heaven is basically nothing but the far-away mountain that looks smooth but that is a mirage. I can't believe that right now there are millions of people simply laying about in Heaven doing nothing and that is what God wants? Spend a few years down on earth and come back and sit back and enjoy? Does that make any kind of sense?

Only Life is Real

 

[LuisDantas]

Basically reincarnation means Life - not sure why you think it is weird.

The word is usually associated with weird notions slanted towards denying the reality of death.

I can't very well claim to actually understand them, though.

Don't you think lands of plenty in the afterlife is more weird?

Do I have to choose between the two? It is a hard bargain.

Yes they are more tempting and sounds good the to ear - who doesn't want the good life? How can one convince a person not to invest with Madoff - he of the "i will make great returns regardless of the market direction" and invest with a trusted company that tells you that you might lose it all?

Basically choosing Reincarnation means choosing Life, warts and all - Heaven is basically nothing but the far-away mountain that looks smooth but that is a mirage. I can't believe that right now there are millions of people simply laying about in Heaven doing nothing and that is what God wants? Spend a few years down on earth and come back and sit back and enjoy? Does that make any kind of sense?

Only Life is Real

I don't think we quite disagree.

 

[kalyan]

I didn't limit this thread to Hindus or Buddhists because i simply do not believe in God or Gods that would divide their own children. We are ALL Her children and Her laws apply to ALL of us. We ALL can savor the Gift of Life, of Reincarnation, regardless of religion or non-religion

What i wish to say with this post is to convince my fellow Hindus and Buddhists that Life is a Gift. Because life has been so harsh, so difficult it is natural to hope for a better afterlife and religions were more than happy to create magic lands of plenty in the hereafter. Those lands are a myth. As i have posted before such a life is available but not for humans - as Bheema berets his brother after the war, Yudhistira who wanted to give up everything and go away to the forest - if giving up everything is the path to Moksha then mountains and trees would have obtained Moksha a long time ago. A mountain or a tree does not suffer - they live in perpetual joy and happiness - if you want a life of joy and happiness realize where you are headed

Life, as a human being, comes pre-packaged with pain and suffering. As i have posted before also - we were safe, comforted, happy and in bliss in the womb and then suddenly tossed out into a cold, hard world.

Pain begins, but so does life

Again as we grow older, we leave the nest - again we get to face life on our own - the comforts of home, mother and father doing everything for us, protecting us, sheltering us, are gone! But we know we can't stay in the nest, we must grow up, become Adults

That is what Hindus are trying to tell us with the concept of Reincarnation - it is time to grow up - we can't crawl back into the womb, we can't stay children forever

We have been conditioned to look upon life as something bad - like a jail sentence, get it over with and run away to magic lands in the sky. Life is not a jail sentence, it is a Gift

We need to stop looking at life from the coward's point of view, from the weak man's point of view, instead we need to look at life from the Strong person's point of view, from the warrior's point of view

Hinduism continuously stresses that we lose the "I" - let us lose the "I" - basically - How will "I" be happy? Who will make "Me" happy? Where can "I" go to be happy? We get a whole new perspective on life

your central idea makes perfect sense although I would not agree with 'a mountain or tree does not suffer'(this you cannot possibly know)
Especially Like this from the OP

Hinduism continuously stresses that we lose the "I" - let us lose the "I" - basically - How will "I" be happy? Who will make "Me" happy? Where can "I" go to be happy? We get a whole new perspective on life

 

[Aupmanyav]

The word is usually associated with weird notions slanted towards denying the reality of death. .. I can't very well claim to actually understand them, though.

Luis, reincarnation does not deny death. Actually it depends on that. No death, no birth, no reincarnation (as in my view, all illusion). Hinduism points again and again on inevitability of death and that the gains of selfish deeds would not help you at that time. The main point is what we do while alive? Should we care for other people or look only for our own interest and convenience. So they (the Hindu society as well as most other religions, the theory is older than the oldest religion) adopted the carrot and sword policy. Do good, socially helpful things and you attain heaven (Hinduism put a limit to that, but Christianity and Islam gave a free ticket, an eternity in heaven - you only have to agree with what Paul or Mohammad were saying). And do evil things and suffer in hell (for a time proportional to the gravity of your deed in Hinduism - and for eternity in the other two religions. The rest all is expansion of the idea. What and where you think you don't understand it? It is a social construct.

 

[RamaRaksha]

The word is usually associated with weird notions slanted towards denying the reality of death.

I can't very well claim to actually understand them, though.

Do I have to choose between the two? It is a hard bargain.
I don't think we quite disagree.

At the end of the day we have no evidence for God or the Heavens or for Reincarnation, so i look for rational explanations

Heaven is nothing but running away from life - we have Terrorism thanks to this concept - sick people hoping to be rewarded by God and be taken care of for eternity - basically it is running back to the womb, childhood, back to the nest where it is safe and one gets to live in comfort

Reincarnation was promoted by ancient Hindus as a counter to the above idea - asking people to grow up, to become Adults - there is no running away from life - no magic lands in the afterlife - what you see is what you get, so you better make the best of it

 

[RamaRaksha]

your central idea makes perfect sense although I would not agree with 'a mountain or tree does not suffer'(this you cannot possibly know)
Especially Like this from the OP

Hinduism continuously stresses that we lose the "I" - let us lose the "I" - basically - How will "I" be happy? Who will make "Me" happy? Where can "I" go to be happy? We get a whole new perspective on life

Obviously i wouldn't even know if another human being is suffering - some Scientists say that we might all be just numbers on a computer - you are the only one in this world and everything that you see is being created for your benefit

But we do live in the real world, if i don't eat i will die - so we have to live with the understanding that everything is real. So as a human i feel pain, and so do you. Does a piece of rock feel pain? Pain is an evolutionary trait - it was developed as a defense mechanism - i am sleeping in the forest and some tiger or wild animal comes and starts munching on my leg, if i don't feel pain, i wake up with no legs or worse!

Developing pain would be a bit useless to a tree and we don't think a rock has life, it doesn't evolve so i am pretty sure it doesn't feel pain either

 

[RamaRaksha]

And do evil things and suffer in hell (for a time proportional to the gravity of your deed in Hinduism - and for eternity in the other two religions. .

That part that you wrote was the reason that i started on my spiritual journey - my IshtaDaiwam is God Rama as most Andhras are and if you read the story of Ramayana, one can't see how a kind, just soul like my Rama would torture anyone. So if you hate gays or blacks or lower castes, will torture enlighten you? Is that how one learns? To me the concept of Hell is nothing but Vengeance, not justice. Understandable because in the ancient world justice was hard to come by - people with muscle could abuse the weak with impunity - even today we have little defense against most violent people - imagine a past when the rich king or guy could take one look at your sister or worse your wife and demand that you send her to his place for the night. They didn't have banks then, so one kept money in a safe at home - well one bad night and all your money could be gone!
And so people hoped for bad things to happen to those that harmed them and hoped a God will do that and so was born the concept of hell
But hell is an eye for an eye - you ran over my dog, let me kill your dog now - but that's vengeance, not justice

Primitive, backward ideas - we need to move forward from

 

[Twilight Hue]

I don't think it's so black and white like Life and death. Reincarnation and mortality.

As we speak there is a consistency by which death and life translates into the death of our cells while regeneration replaces those that died which for all practible purposes was and is "you". Our skin flakes off, we deficate and urinate out. We take in food and water. Life and death is intertwined and to a larger extent, we as organisms die off and get buried, creamated, or other, while simultainously birth springs up all around at the same time. There is no real distinguishment concerning death and life, reincarnation and mortality. It's simultaneous and indistinguishable.

I don't view life as a gift, nor death a curse.

 

[Aupmanyav]

To me the concept of Hell is nothing but Vengeance, not justice.

Do you also think that all penal codes, laws and courts also are nothing but vengeance. What do you propose, then, for wrong-doers in the society? Some punishment, even imaginary (if it can help) is always useful. The idea of hell is that. It may not deter the hardened criminals but it does deter normally law-abiding theists, believers, from venturing into crime and evil deeds.