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Featured Reincarnation Qestion

Discussion in 'Theism' started by Skwim, May 14, 2019.

  1. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Well, the theists believe that souls are due to God (I don't believe that). Moreover, you are forgetting all forms of life and focusing just on humans, Hindus believe all forms of life have souls, some maintain even trees and vegetation have souls. Souls are not restricted only to human form. So 8 billion humans are nothing in comparision with the billions and billions individuals of more than 8.5 million living species.
     
  2. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I am not sure if it is funny. You might have to pay the principal, the interest accrued and perhaps penalty too. So for a loan of 100 USD, you might have to pay a million dollars. And, the payment may not be in terms of money but in some other way.
     
  3. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Numbers mean nothing when God is constantly emanating souls, and simultaneously receiving souls back. Clouds form, raindrops form, it falls, only to be evaporated some day later. The number of waterdrops (souls) is not constant, but water (Brahman) is always just there.
     
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  4. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    This is interesting.

    I have also read about Pythagoras and Plato themselves having beliefs in reincarnation. In the Christian tradition, Origen himself is said to have taught reincarnation.

    It is also possible that Orphism is a result of Hellenic and Dharmic syncretism, and that the Orphic egg could be the same or similar to the Shivalingam.

    The Cosmic Egg
     
  5. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    And a darn fine one because dandelions are not as advanced as trees. :) Btw, I like dandelions... whimsical little flowers.

    I saw a hokey little meme on my FB feed that went something like this:
    • Boy has dog.
    • Dog is sick and must be put to sleep.
    • Veterinarian comes to house to perform the euthanasia.
    • Family is gathered around dog as he drifts off.
    • Adults ask boy if he understands.
    • Boy says yes, he knows why dogs have such short lives.
    • Dogs are smart and love unconditionally, and come ready-made like that.
    • They don't have to stay as long to learn things like we do. So they leave.
    Some beings need more time, some need less time. Dandelions know it all. :D
     
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  6. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    We don't believe it's a 1:1 correspondence soul:body. That 1:1 correspondence is an Abrahamic concept wherein God created and can destroy souls and bodies on a whim ("do not fear them who can destroy only the body, rather fear Him who can destroy both body and soul"). If there's a a 1:1 correspondence soul:body that says that a soul is created at the moment of conception. Or is there a soul pool (as Hinduism posits... Brahman)? If the embryo fails to divide past the blastocyst stage, what then becomes of the soul? Does it go back into the pool? Is the soul created at some point later in pregnancy? Then there should be no outcry against abortion, since the embryo doesn't yet have a soul.
     
  7. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Resident Hermit
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    Time is relative. It doesn’t exist outside of maya.

    It’s the experience(s) itself that leads to liberation, not the duration or quantity.

    In my experience, anyway. ;)
     
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  8. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Resident Hermit
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    This one doesn’t. :)

    In fact, this one doesn’t even believe in souls.
     
  9. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    I think so - if reincarnation is real

    But where would you find me - and vice versa?
    I might be reborn somewhere in Argentina and you might be reborn in Finland
    Would you recognize me and vice versa?
    and would you remember the loan and would I remember the loan?
    and if a loan instrument was made would it be enforceable?
    And how about if I were re-born as a dog or a fish or an insect, would anyone notice?

    Personally I don't believe I have a past life and reincarnation.
    Catholics in their personal time believe in these things as I used to before
    We were born once, destined to die and judge later somewhere in the future
    when things come to an end

    The reality is - everything that has a beginning has an end.

    “WHAT WOULD BE OUR CONDITIONS WHEN WE DIED?”

    upload_2019-5-23_7-16-34.jpeg


    THE FOLLOWING VERSES state the condition of the dead:

    (1) He shall never return, nor shall his place know him anymore:

    “As the cloud disappears and vanishes away, So he who goes down to the grave does not come up. He shall never return to his house, Nor shall his place know him anymore. ‘Therefore I will not restrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.” (Job 7:9-11, NKJV)


    (2) He remembers no more:

    “Adrift among the dead, Like the slain who lie in the grave, Whom You remember no more, And who are cut off from Your hand.” (Psalms 88:5, NKJV)


    (3) His thoughts perish:

    “His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.” (Psalms 146:4, KJV)


    (4) They know nothing:

    “For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5, NKJV)


    (5) Nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun:

    “For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; Nevermore will they have a share In anything done under the sun.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, NKJV)


    (6) The dead lies on his grave “till the heaven are no more” or until the Day of Judgment:

    “But man dies and is laid away; Indeed he breathes his last And where is he? As water disappears from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dries up, So man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, They will not awake Nor be roused from their sleep.” (Job 14:10-12 NKJV)

    “But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
    “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.” (II Peter 3:7, 10, NKJV)
     
  10. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    IMHO, and speaking from the theist angle, if the embryo fails to divide, it is Gods' doing. Who knows what the karma of the person or its parents brought that up. The embryo has a soul right from the time of inception. Abortions should not be performed for frivolous reasons. There should should be a valid reason for doing that as in the Indian laws for abortion: Abortion in India - Wikipedia
    Speaking as a theist, Gods and Goddesses have ways to do all that. That is why an Indian migrates to Finland or Argentina. 'Prārabhda' (effect of karmas in the previous lives) makes the person do that for better or worse.
     
    #70 Aupmanyav, May 22, 2019
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
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  11. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    Without giving away my position on abortion or dragging up that ****-storm, I agree with you. I believe that the soul inhabits the embryo at the outset. I don't hold with the idea of creating and destroying souls if the being doesn't fully develop.It doesn't make sense to me that Souls Supply Sgt. says "Well, another failed gestation... yeah, toss that soul in the trash... no body for it". Or maybe they go to the Souls 'R Us Discount outlet. But if we use the ocean/waves/droplet analogy of souls, we're good. Nothing is created, nothing is destroyed.
     
  12. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    That agrees with 'Advaita'. But then, 'advaita' is not necessary for all Hindus. They are welcome to hold other views.
     
  13. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    Yep, it was. Everyone who has died are still dead, Unless you have strong evidence they are not.
     
  14. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    There are many reincarnation books by psychiatrists like Dr. Brian Weiss revealing past life experiences under hypnosis , and there are also books on some children who revealed spontaneously past life experiences, both in the west and east. Dr. Ian Stevenson also has compiled a body of empirical evidences in this regard as well.

    You can go through some case studies in this thread....

    Reincarnation/Past Lives



    Below is the past life experience of a young boy who claimed to be a downed military pilot in the second world war...

    Reincarnated! Our son is a World War II pilot come back to life | Daily Mail Online
     
  15. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    While almost everyone who has died is still dead, that has nothing to do with what the snake said. Eve told the snake that G-d said that they could not eat it nor touch it or they would die. G-d did not say that they would die if they touched it. They would not die for doing so, just as the snake said.
     
  16. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    Because someone says something, does that make it true ? Hypnosis is rife with subtle ques and and suggestion.

    George Patton believed he was a reincarnation of Caesar , does that make it so ?

    The world is full of phenomena that isn´t what it seems.
     
  17. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    The 'someone' in question is a well-established psychiatrist, not a layman.

    Patton, Henry Ford and others too believed in reincarnation. What Patton meant maybe his personal opinion and not a past life memory like in the case of James Leininger ! I cannot comment on that as there is not much data on it.
     
  18. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    Psychitrists say and do all kinds of things, they have motives just like the rest of us.
     
  19. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    Why should a western psychiatrist like Dr.Brian Weiss, well-respected in his profession, and a self-confessed atheist of Jewish origin, talk and write about reincarnation all of a sudden !

    Teachings of reincarnation/rebirth are also present in the ancient eastern religions of Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and later Sikhism.

    Western psychology is of recent origin, and the understanding of the unconscious only came up in the late nineteenth century through Sigmund Freud whereas in the East, this has been studied and researched for milleniums.

    The popular story of the Buddha healing the serial killer Angulimala and converting him into a harmless monk, 2500 years back, shows the efficacy and depth of eastern psychology.

    Meditation techniques like mindfulness, vipassana and others are now used in prisons all over the world considering its efficacy in neutralising violent behavior.

    Vipassana Meditation Courses In Prisons

    Britain's most dangerous prisoners to get meditation lessons

    How Meditation Reduced Violence in a Mexico Prison
     
    #79 ajay0, May 24, 2019
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  20. Diamond

    Diamond Member

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    #80 Diamond, May 24, 2019
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
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