Reincarnation in Buddhism and Hinduism.

[firedragon]

Still no proper refences for your claims. I think you're just making stuff up.

Since you asked for direct reference in the Pali Canon for the Prathama Mahanama Sutta, try and find Sanyutta Nikaya, Mahavaggo, Sothapaththi Sanyutthan, Sarakani Vaggo, Prathama Mahanama Suttan. Of course by the looks of it you will probably say something else to this also, so if you want I can take two photographs of the Sutta and post it here. No worries.

 

[firedragon]

Not really. You've failed to properly reference your claims, which leads to the conclusion that you're just making stuff up, or speculating.

Anyway since you are upto making stuff up, you said it is in "Abhidhamma or Visudhimagga" right? Did you just make that up? Curious.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I don't have a particular belief about reincarnation, and it all seems quite speculative to me. It's an intriguing possibility, but not something I pretend to understand. Presumably it involves the continuance of a "soul" through repeated rebirths? Though the soul would need to be changing over time, in order to allow for eventual liberation.
I'm not sure I understand your idea of a universal soul, could you elaborate?

Hi Martin, before I attempt to explain the reality represented by the concept of universal soul, it would very helpful if you would explain to me what you mean as being an adherent to the Dharmic religion, For example , are you Buddhist, or what? Knowing this will help me to employ language that you most probably understand rather than my response requiring additional explanations to you about your non-understanding of the terminology I may use.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

A lot of if not most Asian Buddhists believe in reincarnation, the whole rebirth story is mostly a Western phenomenon, popular with Atheists who don't believe in the supernatural.. I studied and ordained with Asian Buddhists, they all teach reincarnation, its only online that I hear Western Buddhists deny reincarnation and come up with the convoluted term rebirth, rebirth and reincarnation are english translations of the same pali word, they really are one and the same thing, the Pali canon teaches reincarnation, over and over and over again, going back and retranslating it as rebirth, and giving it a different meaning is an exercise in futility. A more literal translation might be "again living" or "again born"

Precisely, well said.

 

[Lyndon]

Although researching online it seems the term rebirth is used much more in the commentary than in the scripture, but rebirth or reincarnation is described in detail throughout the Pali canon

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Although researching online it seems the term rebirth is used much more in the commentary than in the scripture, but rebirth or reincarnation is described in detail throughout the Pali canon

I know, but we live in an age when atheism has been growing faster than religions, and imho, the internet search function results seems to reflect this growing influence in all spheres.

 

[Lyndon]

Western Buddhism has been dominated by atheist, non supernatural type believers, not so in Asia, or within Asian immigrant communities.

 

[rational experiences]

Science is who quantified separation and gave it status.

Humans are just humans. We survive living and status spiritual is reverence of life and to cause the least amount of change.

We all know sex brings forth a human life and adult humans make the choice.

If a human is bodily changed we already knew science introduced change by man's choice.

Our mind is affected by pre lived human mind and body memories that tells us a reincarnation study for itself. As DNA changed as it lived. Past to present human experienced.

 

[firedragon]

Although researching online it seems the term rebirth is used much more in the commentary than in the scripture, but rebirth or reincarnation is described in detail throughout the Pali canon

But Lyndon, in my honest opinion you are missing the elephant in the room. The Pali Canon you spoke of has sutras like Anaththa Suttan, anaththaneeya suttan, duthiya anaththa suttan, thuthiya anatta suttan, anattanupassana suttan, etc etc etc. All about preaching no self. So if you say the word reincarnation is the correct word for punarbhava, then you still have to take into account the philosophy of anatta. It has to be accounted for. Just because the reincarnation is how you prefer it to be translated, or even if its some other word, it still has to be taken in the context of the Anatta philosophy. No soul. No self. How ever you wish to translate it in English.

You were a monk. In your order did they reject Anatta Characteristic? How did they render the Anatta Lakkhana Suttan?

I hope you understand the point. I would like to hear from you when you have time.

Thanks and best regards.

 

[Lyndon]

there wasn't that much communication with senior monks as they didn't speak english, most of my time was spent memorizing daily prayers in pali, and doing yard work!

 

[Polymath257]

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Just reminding everyone that this is NOT a debate thread.