Reincarnation and Refining

[Fool]

Is reincarnation a purifying process?


Jeremiah 18:4
And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.


Malachi 3:3
And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.


Zechariah 13:9
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

 

[WalterTrull]

I'm guessing you have to believe in carnation first.

 

[Axe Elf]

Reincarnation doesn't exist in the Christian tradition.

"And just as it is appointed for [all] men once to die, and after that the [certain] judgment" --Hebrews 9:27 (Amplified Bible)

But if you die and come back as a hillbilly, that's reintarnation.

 

[WalterTrull]

that's reintarnation.

Nah, that's repaving old US 1 South of Fort Myers.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I'm guessing you have to believe in carnation first.

At least it's better than Ovaltine.

 

[Valjean]

Maybe you should clarify your view of reincarnation. It can be a simple concept, but in some philosophies, like Vedanta, it can get quite complicated.

 

[Earthling]

Reincarnation doesn't exist in the Christian tradition.

"And just as it is appointed for [all] men once to die, and after that the [certain] judgment" --Hebrews 9:27 (Amplified Bible)

But if you die and come back as a hillbilly, that's reintarnation.

You know . . . I don't know if your avatar is you or someone else, but it has always, from day one, reminded me of Billy Ray Cyrus. Really. It honestly does.

 

[Valjean]

Yes...It's only fair that avatars should depict their authors accurately.

 

[Sleeppy]

Reincarnation doesn't exist in the Christian tradition.

"And just as it is appointed for [all] men once to die, and after that the [certain] judgment" --Hebrews 9:27 (Amplified Bible)

Doesn't preclude reincarnation, in the same way judgement is simultaneously a daily occurrence, and what occurs according to God's foreknowledge, before time began.

 

[Axe Elf]

You know . . . I don't know if your avatar is you or someone else, but it has always, from day one, reminded me of Billy Ray Cyrus. Really. It honestly does.

Yes, it's me, and I get that a lot--Jesus, the Devil, or Billy Ray Cyrus. That's the trinity of People I Look Like, apparently.

 

[Axe Elf]

Doesn't preclude reincarnation, in the same way judgement is simultaneously a daily occurrence, and what occurs according to God's foreknowledge, before time began.

It only allows reincarnation if you never die again after the first time--that is, if you are immortal once you are reincarnated. Dying more than once is prohibited in Christianity, per Hebrews 9:27.

 

[Earthling]

Yes, it's me, and I get that a lot--Jesus, the Devil, or Billy Ray Cyrus. That's the trinity of People I Look Like, apparently.

Well, isn't that remarkable? Or is it? The four of you do look alike. Just you appreciate the fact that you are still thin and have hair, young man. It could be worse. Whats I get is Buddha, Butterbean the Boxer, and Jabba the Hutt.

 

[Fool]

Reincarnation doesn't exist in the Christian tradition.

"And just as it is appointed for [all] men once to die, and after that the [certain] judgment" --Hebrews 9:27 (Amplified Bible)

But if you die and come back as a hillbilly, that's reintarnation.

see heaven has got a plan for you.

men, personalities live but once and die. the spirit doesn't. the mind returns to the one who gave it. elijah was taken. the spirit of elijah came as john. the spirit of elisha came as jesus. when elijah found him before, he was plowing with 12 oxen. when john found him later, he was cultivating with 12 disciples.


Matthew 19:28
So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,


Malachi 3:2
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner's fire or a launderer's soap.


the spirit incarnates, and palingenesis = metempsychosis = reproduction = reincarnation




palingenesis


metempsychosis



behold he is coming with the thought in mind and every eye will understand him.


see?




Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then the form will return to the earth as it was, And the consciousness/mind will return to Love who gave it.


“But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.


and this is how you shall know it is the ONE.


Blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD. From the house of the LORD we bless you.

 

[WalterTrull]

At least it's better than Ovaltine.

Yeah, those Ovaltiners. I don't care what other folks believe as long as it doesn't affect me, or leave strange lumps in my yard. BUT! Ovaltiners are getting out of hand. Do they REALLY have to wear those T-shirts with the see-through shoulders? There oughta be a law.

 

[Fool]

It only allows reincarnation if you never die again after the first time--that is, if you are immortal once you are reincarnated. Dying more than once is prohibited in Christianity, per Hebrews 9:27.

redefining(reincarnation) isn't the same as reminding = (resurrection).


do not be ignorant of the infinite I that i am



A man makes a picture
A moving picture
Through the light projected
He can see himself up close
A man captures color
A man likes to stare
He turns his money into light to look for her
And I feel
Like I'm drifting, drifting, drifting from the shore
And I feel
Like I'm swimming out to her

So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.



in my mother's-father's body there are many corpuscles; if it were not so you would not be that, that i am.

 

[Axe Elf]

see heaven has got a plan for you.

"Heaven" doesn't; God does.

men, personalities live but once and die. the spirit doesn't. the mind returns to the one who gave it.

You are confusing the spirit with the mind. The mind, the personality, the traits that make you YOU--are the soul. The spirit is the impersonal force that animates matter and makes it alive--it is the spirit that returns to its source (God) at death.

elijah was taken. the spirit of elijah came as john. the spirit of elisha came as jesus. when elijah found him before, he was plowing with 12 oxen. when john found him later, he was cultivating with 12 disciples.

Yeah, and I've slept with 12 women. Does that make me the reincarnation of Elijah or Jesus?

Matthew 19:28
So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

These verses are not talking about reincarnation. The first talks about when the old heaven and earth have passed away, and there is a new heaven and earth--it's not even talking about people. The second talks about the process of renewal when a person is saved--but still living the same lifetime.

Malachi 3:2
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner's fire or a launderer's soap.

And this verse is totally unrelated to the topic of reincarnation.

the spirit incarnates, and palingenesis = metempsychosis = reproduction = reincarnation

palingenesis

metempsychosis

This is palpable nonsense. Palingenesis refers to the (largely discredited) theory of recapitulation, as a developing embryo passes through what was once thought to be the various stages of evolution before becoming fully human. It has nothing to do with reproducing a new or reincarnated copy of a single individual. Metempsychosis is a term for the transmigration of the soul, but it does not appear in the Bible (and, since it deals with the soul, it has nothing to do with the spirit).

behold he is coming with the thought in mind and every eye will understand him.

see?

See what? That has nothing to do with reincarnation either.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then the form will return to the earth as it was, And the consciousness/mind will return to Love who gave it.

Now you're just rewriting the Bible. I want to know what translation you are using that says "consciousness/mind" will return to "Love" who gave it, because I've looked at all the translations in the post below, and they all talk about the "spirit" in one form or another, using the same word that was used to describe the breath of life that God used to animate Adam when he was first created--the life force that animates matter to make it alive--and that the spirit returns to God.

“But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

and this is how you shall know it is the ONE.

Blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD. From the house of the LORD we bless you.

Again, nothing to do with reincarnation here. I have no idea why you quoted it.

I'm sure glad you named yourself "Fool," because if I did, I would probably get a warning.

 

[Axe Elf]

Translations referenced in the post above:

KJ21
then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
ASV
and the dust returneth to the earth as it was, and the spirit returneth unto God who gave it.
AMP
then the dust [out of which God made man’s body] will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.
AMPC
Then shall the dust [out of which God made man’s body] return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return to God Who gave it.
BRG
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
CSB
and the dust returns to the earth as it once was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
CEB
before dust returns to the earth as it was before and the life-breath returns to God who gave it.
CJB
the dust returns to earth, as it was, and the spirit returns to God, who gave it!
CEV
So our bodies return to the earth, and the life-giving breath returns to God.
DARBY
and the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit return unto God who gave it.
DRA
And the dust return into its earth, from whence it was, and the spirit return to God, who gave it.
ERV
Your body came from the earth. And when you die, it will return to the earth. But your spirit came from God, and when you die, it will return to him.
ESV
and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
ESVUK
and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
EXB
·You will turn back into the dust of the earth again [L The dust will return to the earth as it was], ·but your [L and the] spirit will return to God who gave it [3:21; Gen. 2:7; 3:19].
GNV
And dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit return to God that gave it.
GW
Then the dust of mortals goes back to the ground as it was before, and the breath of life goes back to God who gave it.
GNT
Our bodies will return to the dust of the earth, and the breath of life will go back to God, who gave it to us.
HCSB
and the dust returns to the earth as it once was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
ICB
Your body will become part of the dust of the earth again. But your spirit will return to God who gave it.
ISV
then man’s dust will go back to the earth, returning to what it was, and the spirit will return to the God who gave it.
JUB
and the dust returns to the earth as it was before and the spirit returns unto God who gave it.
KJV
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
AKJV
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
LEB
And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the breath returns to God who gave it.
TLB
then the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
MSG
Life, lovely while it lasts, is soon over. Life as we know it, precious and beautiful, ends. The body is put back in the same ground it came from. The spirit returns to God, who first breathed it.
MEV
The dust returns to the earth where it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
NOG
Then the dust of mortals goes back to the ground as it was before, and the breath of life goes back to Elohim who gave it.
NABRE
And the dust returns to the earth as it once was, and the life breath returns to God who gave it.
NASB
then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.
NCV
You will turn back into the dust of the earth again, but your spirit will return to God who gave it.
NET
and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the life’s breath returns to God who gave it.
NIRV
Remember your Creator before you return to the dust you came from. Remember him before your spirit goes back to God who gave it.
NIV
and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
NIVUK
and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
NKJV
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.
NLV
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was. And the spirit will return to God Who gave it.
NLT
For then the dust will return to the earth, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.
NRSV
and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the breath returns to God who gave it.
NRSVA
and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the breath returns to God who gave it.
NRSVACE
and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the breath returns to God who gave it.
NRSVCE
and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the breath returns to God who gave it.
OJB
Then shall the aphar return to ha’aretz as it was; and the ruach shall return unto HaElohim who gave it.
RSV
and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
RSVCE
and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
TLV
Then the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
VOICE
So before the silver cord is snapped and the golden bowl is shattered: before the earthen jar is smashed at the spring and the wheel at the well is broken—before the dust returns to the earth that gave it and the spirit-breath returns to God who breathed it, let us remember our Creator.
WEB
and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
WYC
and dust turn again into his earth, whereof it was, and the spirit turn again to God, that gave it. (and the dust, or the dirt, return to the earth, where it was before, and the spirit return to God, who gave it.)
YLT
And the dust returneth to the earth as it was, And the spirit returneth to God who gave it.

 

[Fool]

"Heaven" doesn't; God does.



You are confusing the spirit with the mind. The mind, the personality, the traits that make you YOU--are the soul. The spirit is the impersonal force that animates matter and makes it alive--it is the spirit that returns to its source (God) at death.



Yeah, and I've slept with 12 women. Does that make me the reincarnation of Elijah or Jesus?



These verses are not talking about reincarnation. The first talks about when the old heaven and earth have passed away, and there is a new heaven and earth--it's not even talking about people. The second talks about the process of renewal when a person is saved--but still living the same lifetime.



And this verse is totally unrelated to the topic of reincarnation.



This is palpable nonsense. Palingenesis refers to the (largely discredited) theory of recapitulation, as a developing embryo passes through what was once thought to be the various stages of evolution before becoming fully human. It has nothing to do with reproducing a new or reincarnated copy of a single individual. Metempsychosis is a term for the transmigration of the soul, but it does not appear in the Bible (and, since it deals with the soul, it has nothing to do with the spirit).



See what? That has nothing to do with reincarnation either.



Now you're just rewriting the Bible. I want to know what translation you are using that says "consciousness/mind" will return to "Love" who gave it, because I've looked at all the translations in the post below, and they all talk about the "spirit" in one form or another, using the same word that was used to describe the breath of life that God used to animate Adam when he was first created--the life force that animates matter to make it alive--and that the spirit returns to God.



Again, nothing to do with reincarnation here. I have no idea why you quoted it.

I'm sure glad you named yourself "Fool," because if I did, I would probably get a warning.

heaven = mind and earth = body


ruwach = mind = spirit

mind is the builder, spirit the creator.


the ruwach is in the nephesh but the nephesh is not in the ruwach.

 

[Axe Elf]

heaven = mind and earth = body


ruwach = mind = spirit

mind is the builder, spirit the creator.


the ruwach is in the nephesh but the nephesh is not in the ruwach.

Yeah, I can say...

fish = bicycle = apple

...but it still doesn't make fish live in trees.

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't think that reincarnation makes logical sense, but apparently there are Hindus who somehow manage to, and I have learned to respect Hinduism. I am not sure how they conceive of the concept, but it seems to be a very different way than that of Kardecist Spiritists.

Speaking of that group, they do claim to be Christians, despite also being very much reincarnationists.