Reconciling Christmas

[sugnim]

In my ongoing process of coming out to myself as a theist, I still cannot get on board with the celebratory nature of Christmas. It seems morbid to me that people would celebrate the birth of a baby who is specifically here to act as a blood sacrifice. How can I look at a tiny newborn baby and feel joy at the prospect of his impending violent death? The idea alone makes me nauseous. It feels sadistic at worst, like a psychopath salivating at identifying a future murder victim. At best, it feels greedy, like a farmer overseeing the birth of a particularly lucrative livestock animal, but instead of a fat wallet, the payoff is a death/resurrection. How can someone look at a newborn baby shivering in a manure-laden shack and feel joy that he's here to be slaughtered once he's old enough?

P.S. These are my own musings & feelings, and I mean no offense to anyone who holds this story as sacred.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It's clearly a warped tale reminiscent of the Dark Ages.

Christmas really isn't even a Christian holiday as it's actually based on pagan celebration.

I would just enjoy the warmth and joy of the season and think of your fellow human being.

In the meantime , I'm taking my beef and potato soup into my bedroom and wait for Jacob Marley to show up.

 

[sugnim]

It's clearly a warped tale reminiscent of the Dark Ages.

Christmas really isn't even a Christian holiday as it's actually based on pagan celebration.

I would just enjoy the warmth and joy of the season and think of your fellow human being.

In the meantime , I'm taking my beef and potato soup into my bedroom and wait for Jacob Marley to show up.

Sure. I know all that. But, it doesn't answer the question of how people reconcile these two things. I've got my pagan tree up, am planning a party, and I dig Dickens as much as anybody, but those are different topics of conversation.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The view that it was a human sacrifice to placate an angry God is a rather modern Protestant idea. Christmas celebrates the Incarnation of God into human flesh to bring spiritual light into the world. It's a momentous occasion as humanity was seen as alienated from God by the Fall but Christ bridges the distance between man and God by taking flesh.

 

[Rival]

People are looking at this with very modern eyes. I cannot claim sources on this, though feel free to look, but it appears that people in the mediaeval period in Europe and earlier used pain often to represent rebirth and control. Pain is a very strong feeling known to everyone. Many momentous moments include pain, such as childbirth, starting one's period, going through puberty, losing virginity (for some), exercise/sports/etc and other such things. All these things represent a transition in one's life and in order to get there it takes pain and endurance. One has become a new being, in a way; a mother; an adult; and though the pain we hope to better ourselves, to make a positive change. This also goes hand-in-hand with the Christian idea of blessed suffering.

Nowadays, we use sex a lot, and love, as our symbols; back then, pain, sacrifice and so-on seemed to speak loudly to everyone. You gain only by losing; you change only through suffering; no pain no gain. This is solidified in the resurrection story, and I have often heard people ask 'What kind of sacrifice is it that comes back to life?' but this is the wrong question - the whole idea is that the one doing the suffering and sacrificing is born anew; purer, cleaner and freer than before.

 

[Axe Elf]

We are ALL going to die, with 100% certainty. Does that mean you can't celebrate any birth? The entirety of our life on Earth is ruined for you because one day we will die?

Snap out of it.

 

[Brickjectivity]

In my ongoing process of coming out to myself as a theist, I still cannot get on board with the celebratory nature of Christmas. It seems morbid to me that people would celebrate the birth of a baby who is specifically here to act as a blood sacrifice. How can I look at a tiny newborn baby and feel joy at the prospect of his impending violent death? The idea alone makes me nauseous. It feels sadistic at worst, like a psychopath salivating at identifying a future murder victim. At best, it feels greedy, like a farmer overseeing the birth of a particularly lucrative livestock animal, but instead of a fat wallet, the payoff is a death/resurrection. How can someone look at a newborn baby shivering in a manure-laden shack and feel joy that he's here to be slaughtered once he's old enough?

P.S. These are my own musings & feelings, and I mean no offense to anyone who holds this story as sacred.

Kick the dog and say "No offense, dog." ***edit***

 

[BSM1]

In my ongoing process of coming out to myself as a theist, I still cannot get on board with the celebratory nature of Christmas. It seems morbid to me that people would celebrate the birth of a baby who is specifically here to act as a blood sacrifice. How can I look at a tiny newborn baby and feel joy at the prospect of his impending violent death? The idea alone makes me nauseous. It feels sadistic at worst, like a psychopath salivating at identifying a future murder victim. At best, it feels greedy, like a farmer overseeing the birth of a particularly lucrative livestock animal, but instead of a fat wallet, the payoff is a death/resurrection. How can someone look at a newborn baby shivering in a manure-laden shack and feel joy that he's here to be slaughtered once he's old enough?

P.S. These are my own musings & feelings, and I mean no offense to anyone who holds this story as sacred.

And a Merry Christmas to you, too....

 

[metis]

Christmas really isn't even a Christian holiday as it's actually based on pagan celebration.

If you do the research, you'll see that this is simply not true. December 25 was chosen, not because it was "pagan", but in order to celebrate the existence of Jesus as savior, much like there are many other days on the liturgical calendar to commemorate various saints. The Romans did not celebrate Jesus' birth or his existence except for those who converted to Christianity.

Since that day was a Roman holiday, and since people had that day off from work, the Church chose to take advantage of that and allow people in the Church to have the time to celebrate Jesus' existence.

 

[metis]

In my ongoing process of coming out to myself as a theist, I still cannot get on board with the celebratory nature of Christmas. It seems morbid to me that people would celebrate the birth of a baby who is specifically here to act as a blood sacrifice. How can I look at a tiny newborn baby and feel joy at the prospect of his impending violent death? The idea alone makes me nauseous. It feels sadistic at worst, like a psychopath salivating at identifying a future murder victim. At best, it feels greedy, like a farmer overseeing the birth of a particularly lucrative livestock animal, but instead of a fat wallet, the payoff is a death/resurrection. How can someone look at a newborn baby shivering in a manure-laden shack and feel joy that he's here to be slaughtered once he's old enough?

P.S. These are my own musings & feelings, and I mean no offense to anyone who holds this story as sacred.

Are you happy Jesus existed? If so, consider celebrating Christmas because that's what's it's really about.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It seems the only Christians that really hated Christmas was the Puritans. Bah humbug !!! Be off with ye!


In the spirit of Christmas it's interesting to note some of its history which I think suffices quite well for this season.

Pagan Roots? 5 Surprising Facts About Christmas

God bless us everyone!! ;O]

 

[sun rise]

The view that it was a human sacrifice to placate an angry God is a rather modern Protestant idea. Christmas celebrates the Incarnation of God into human flesh to bring spiritual light into the world. It's a momentous occasion as humanity was seen as alienated from God by the Fall but Christ bridges the distance between man and God by taking flesh.

I see it to some degree like you wrote. Your point about bringing light into the world is how I see each advent of the Avatar, Jesus included.

And my personal take is that what better day to celebrate the rebirth of light is when the light is at it's lowest ebb in the Northern Hemisphere which is the focus of the date. Why December 25th rather than the 21st is not something I know but the low ebb of light seems to me to be critical.

 

[Revoltingest]

Christmas has no religious meaning at all in my family or extended family (heathen,
Jewish, Muslim, & deism).

I had a set of Catholic of in-laws, but that part of me family has been totally excised.
Not because they're Catholic, but rather because they're thieving, stupid, vicious,
hateful, low lifes. So I don't know what Christmas means to them.

 

[Firemorphic]

I guess, Christmas is kind of three things:

The Christian celebration of Jesus' birth
The secular Santa Claus + buy stuff anyways ($$$$$)
And just a holiday for families to have a feast and spend time together

Whatever one you pick (and they fuse a lot), or choose to not celebrate is entirely up to you.

 

[WalterTrull]

If you often have nightmares, you might want to see someone.

 

[Shiranui117]

It's clearly a warped tale reminiscent of the Dark Ages.

Christmas really isn't even a Christian holiday as it's actually based on pagan celebration.

This is just factually wrong. A simple Wikipedia search could tell you that much. Christmas was originally celebrated as part of the Feast of Theophany (back then, Christ's birth and later baptism in the Jordan, nowadays just His baptism). The date of this celebration fell either on January 6th or on December 25th, depending on the region. Saturnalia wasn't celebrated on December 25th, but on December 17th through the 23rd. Sol Invictus was only created in the year 274.

 

[Taffy]

I do not think of his death regarding Christmas. I think of only his birth and his life. Joy to the World! The Lord has come.....let earth, receive our King.

 

[Shiranui117]

In my ongoing process of coming out to myself as a theist, I still cannot get on board with the celebratory nature of Christmas. It seems morbid to me that people would celebrate the birth of a baby who is specifically here to act as a blood sacrifice. How can I look at a tiny newborn baby and feel joy at the prospect of his impending violent death? The idea alone makes me nauseous. It feels sadistic at worst, like a psychopath salivating at identifying a future murder victim. At best, it feels greedy, like a farmer overseeing the birth of a particularly lucrative livestock animal, but instead of a fat wallet, the payoff is a death/resurrection. How can someone look at a newborn baby shivering in a manure-laden shack and feel joy that he's here to be slaughtered once he's old enough?

P.S. These are my own musings & feelings, and I mean no offense to anyone who holds this story as sacred.

This implies that Jesus was forced into sacrificing Himself for us, which is absolutely not the case. He suffered willingly for the life of the world. His birth also had more purpose to it than just starting the process of growing up to adult Jesus for the crucifixion. As St. Athanasius of Alexandria put it, "God became man so that man may become like God." By becoming one of us, He unites our humanity to His Divinity, thus redeeming our fallen nature and sanctifying it as holy, as something which will irrevocably share in the Life of God. He bridges in His own Person the divide between us and God caused by sin. He was born into our mortal life that we may be reborn into His everlasting Life.

 

[Katja]

The view that it was a human sacrifice to placate an angry God is a rather modern Protestant idea. Christmas celebrates the Incarnation of God into human flesh to bring spiritual light into the world. It's a momentous occasion as humanity was seen as alienated from God by the Fall but Christ bridges the distance between man and God by taking flesh.

Really I don't need to add to this.

But I suppose it's also about what you consider Jesus' purpose was. Before that moment of death, he had an entire life of showing us how to live, treat each other, etc. That's not something to celebrate even though it ended badly? I still celebrate people who had untimely deaths...

If it was all about him dying, that could've happened the day after he was born. The fact that a lot of other significant stuff happened in between should tell you that his death wasn't the whole point.

 

[Bear Wild]

In my ongoing process of coming out to myself as a theist, I still cannot get on board with the celebratory nature of Christmas. It seems morbid to me that people would celebrate the birth of a baby who is specifically here to act as a blood sacrifice. How can I look at a tiny newborn baby and feel joy at the prospect of his impending violent death? The idea alone makes me nauseous. It feels sadistic at worst, like a psychopath salivating at identifying a future murder victim. At best, it feels greedy, like a farmer overseeing the birth of a particularly lucrative livestock animal, but instead of a fat wallet, the payoff is a death/resurrection. How can someone look at a newborn baby shivering in a manure-laden shack and feel joy that he's here to be slaughtered once he's old enough?

P.S. These are my own musings & feelings, and I mean no offense to anyone who holds this story as sacred.

I like to think of Christmas as a wonderful story filled with symbolism. The story symbolizes humbleness and hope. It falls next to the winter solstice which is a powerful symbol of the return of light. Jesus is born in a humble place and represent as the celebration proceeds through time as the hope of peace. He represents the opposite to the establishment and authority at the time in which there is a clear hierarchy and is visited by poor to rich and oppressed to powerful as all equals. Thus the equality of all rather than the hierarchy of power at the time. This myth inspires Dickens to write a story about kindness and the evil of greed. It generates a sense of giving to loved ones and those in need. The evergreen with its symbolism becomes a central place and the continuance of life through the darkest time into the light.
As a historic fact it looses it meaning in trying to fit details into a historic place but as a story of hope and peace it is a powerful message to anyone Christian or not. As any myth its symbolism is more powerful that its facts. As for December 25 the best I could find was to use the date of his death and conception to be the same date thus 9 months later he is born on December 25th. Thus the date is made up but I suspect the Roman Catholic Church at the time was well aware of the advantage of this time in terms of celebrations of those they were trying to convert. But this again does not matter. The message and symbolism of this celebration seems to be more important than the date or other details. We will never know when Jesus was born but that does not matter.
I think whether Christian or pagan or other belief the Christmas story can have meaning in its symbolism. Santa Clause is fun anyway and reminds of the mystery of our world.