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Receiving Death Threads

The Voice of Reason

Doctor of Thinkology
NetDoc said:
I believe that niether animals nor plants have a soul. They are destined to physically die one day, whether it is for food or for waste.
While I'm not certain that I agree (or disagree) with the "no soul" for plants and animals, I have to say that even though we do have a soul (if we do), that it does not preclude our own physical death as well. I understand the point you are making, I am merely trying to point out that (at the risk of overstating the obvious), regardless of our soul, our physical body WILL pass some day.

NetDoc said:
War is wrong. We are killing those who are already spiritually dead, but who have a chance for a new life.
Abortion is wrong. While they have not sinned and so have not died spiritually, there is SO much that they can bring into this world. I have no scriptures, but "Thou shall not kill" easily comes to mind.
These topics are both covered, ad infinitum, in other threads, so I don't want to go off topic to discuss them here.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
It's not that the soul precludes the body... it precedes and supercedes it at the same time. The body will pass, and turn to dust. But the soul lasts for an eternity... just like God.
 

Ronald

Well-Known Member
NetDoc said:
It's not that the soul precludes the body... it precedes and supercedes it at the same time. The body will pass, and turn to dust. But the soul lasts for an eternity... just like God.
What part of the Hebrew Bible did you make that discovery? Have you collected the rewards offered for finding immortal and soul together in a sentence? ;)
 

Feathers in Hair

World's Tallest Hobbit
Ronald said:
What part of the Hebrew Bible did you make that discovery? Have you collected the rewards offered for finding immortal and soul together in a sentence? ;)
Does it have to be the Hebrew Bible we're basing everything on? And if so, why?
 

HelpMe

·´sociopathic meanderer`·
etymology
The Hebrew word for soul, nephesh, is variously translated "person" (Genesis 14:21), "self" (Leviticus 11:43), "life" (Psalm 31:13), "me" (Judges 16:30), "creature" (Genesis 1:21), "beast" (Leviticus 24:18), "man" (2 Kings 12:4), "thing" (Ezekiel 47:9), and "fish" (Isaiah 19:10). When translated "body" the nephesh is usually dead (Leviticus 21:11).The Greek word for soul, psuche, has the same meaning.

to be a soul is to be alive.although i'm very sure by the statement that he meant to refer to the spirit which *scripturally*(biblically) is eternal(but not ours;ecc12:7) and seperates man from animal.

NetDoc said:
Do you have a verse that denies this?
Re 16:3-And the second poured out his bowl into the sea; and it became blood as of a dead man; and every living soul died, [even] the things that were in the sea.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Context is appropriate here... Psuche can be used in much the same way that pneuma is used... the primary life force/spirit/soul

But it can also be used literally... as the physical breath (or life).

What "things" would have a soul that lived in the sea? Mermaids?

Was this referring to a physical or spiritual death?

Could this be referring to everything with a soul died PHYSICALLY?

It's not clear because God wants it that way.
 

huajiro

Well-Known Member
mahayana said:
The real question is who we are. We don't ask to be born, don't know the hour of our death. How we affect others is more important than our material accumulations, the tombstones we build. The ideas that last past our demise are the small contributions we make to immortality; if there is judgement, it's about how much we love or make people consider truth and how they should live to make the world a better place.
Can I get an Amen?:jam:
 

HelpMe

·´sociopathic meanderer`·
NetDoc said:
Context is appropriate here... Psuche can be used in much the same way that pneuma is used... the primary life force/spirit/soul...
The sould and the spirit are seperate things(biblically speaking).

The Biblical definition of a soul is simply a breathing body. Notice that the text does not say that man was given a soul, but rather he became a soul. A soul is not something a person has, it is the person. Souls have blood (Jeremiah 2:34). Not only are people souls, but so are fish and animals (Revelation 16:3).

A soul is like the light that results when a light bulb is connected to a power source. The spirit, or breath of life, is the electric current.Electricity will produce light only while it is flowing through the bulb. When the filament in the bulb breaks, the electrical circuit is broken, and the light goes out.Just as the light cannot exist unless there is both electricity and a bulb, so there must be both the breath of life and a functional body in order for there to be a living soul.Thus the scriptures(bible) do(es) not refer to a soul in heaven.
 

cardero

Citizen Mod
Mahayana writes: The real question is who we are.
I think the real question is “who do we want to BE?”

Mahayana writes:We don't ask to be born,


I come from the “school of thought” that proclaims we do choose our physical existence and I also believe we have made plans for how we will exit it. I couldn’t imagine BEing forced into this physical existence for the PURPOSE of becoming an experiment for some Supreme BEing who believes they need/deserve/desire that we remain down here for a PURPOSE that we could just as easily fulfill wherever He resides.

Mahayana writes: don't know the hour of our death.


I do not think that we would endure the visit to a physical existence if we knew how we were going to die. I can contend to this because I do not like BEing told about a movie that someone has seen that I intend to go see. In fact I can’t think of anyone who does. What is interesting is that there have been many accounts of people becoming aware of when their time to die is near. I have heard them reported to the hour to a month to even people making provisions a year before they pass. Sometimes people just K(NOW) when it is their time to die.

Mahayana writes:How we affect others is more important than our material accumulations, the tombstones we build. The ideas that last past our demise are the small contributions we make to immortality; if there is judgement, it's about how much we love or make people consider truth and how they should live to make the world a better place.
I like this last paragraph which is why I am sending you frubals.

 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Again... psuche literally means "breath"

pneuma literally means "wind"

Like the word "love" in english... far too many meanings to even cover. We use love when we mean lust. We use love when we mean like. We have such a poor concept of "real love" because of the various contexts we use it in.

Psuche and pneuma are synonyms in many ways... and yet we can use psuche in other ways as well... like for anything that breathes.

It may be that soul is not the best translation for psuche in all instances. In the NIV this passage reads:
Revelations 16:3 The second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it turned into blood like that of a dead man, and every living thing in the sea died.

Obvisouly, I am not the only one who reads the Greek text in this manner.
 

cardero

Citizen Mod
Ronald writes: What part of the Hebrew Bible did you make that discovery? Have you collected the rewards offered for finding immortal and soul together in a sentence?
I also believe that the soul is eternal I also believe that it is precluded from judgment.
If I wanted to collect rewards for extra life I will indulge myself in a video game.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
But what is spiritual death anyway?

Is it like Dante's inferno?

Is it perfect darkness?

Is it weeping and gnashing of teeth?
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Carderro,

what if we merely judge ourselves? If we are given a choice, which do we follow?
 

cardero

Citizen Mod
I'm going to turn this thread up a notch.
If we come across the knowledge of someone dying unfairly/immorally/uncomfortably how would we want them to die? Is there a CORRECT way to die? If the TRUTH has been established that everyone has to die and everyone has to exit this physical existence in some way how would we want our fellow humans to go? Should we even speculate? Should we even judge? Does GOD, K(NOW)ing full well the contrictions of our human bodies and the fact that we cannot stay on this planet forever, even care how we depart?
 

cardero

Citizen Mod
NetDoc: But what is spiritual death anyway?
I believe it is a return to where we originated.

NetDoc: Carderro,
what if we merely judge ourselves? If we are given a choice, which do we follow?
I think at some time we do judge ourselves. I would expect a fair assessment of our lives would be witnessed in hindsight. I am firm believer in following our individual’s hearts rather than following someone else’s.

 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Oh, we are talking about differnet "Judgments" here.

Judgment as discernment: This one is better than that one.

Judgment as sentence: You will die.

The first will help me to determine my choices in life.

The latter will be determined by my choices in life.
 

cardero

Citizen Mod
Carrdero quotes: If we come across the knowledge of someone dying unfairly/immorally/uncomfortably how would we want them to die?
NetDoc: Even death on a cross?
Especially death on a cross.

Two of the more intersting things about Christ's death (if we are to believe the accounts of THE BIBLE) is the specualation of what Jesus would have done if he lived to a common/uncommon life expectancy. The other is the knowledge that Jesus supposedly knew when and how he was going to die. Of course we can visually speculate this on anyone who we have felt wasn't given "enough time" in their existence.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Jesus' life focus was the cross.

He had lots to do and little time to do it in.

He did it for the "Joy that was set before him".

What was far worse is that he died spiritually that day.

"Eloi, eloi, lama sabach thani!"

One of the only things that Jesus said that his disciple dared not translate.
 
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