1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Receiving Death Threads

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by cardero, Nov 29, 2004.

  1. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason Doctor of Thinkology

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    7,678
    Ratings:
    +1,224
    While I'm not certain that I agree (or disagree) with the "no soul" for plants and animals, I have to say that even though we do have a soul (if we do), that it does not preclude our own physical death as well. I understand the point you are making, I am merely trying to point out that (at the risk of overstating the obvious), regardless of our soul, our physical body WILL pass some day.

    These topics are both covered, ad infinitum, in other threads, so I don't want to go off topic to discuss them here.
     
  2. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,193
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    It's not that the soul precludes the body... it precedes and supercedes it at the same time. The body will pass, and turn to dust. But the soul lasts for an eternity... just like God.
     
  3. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,392
    Ratings:
    +50
    What part of the Hebrew Bible did you make that discovery? Have you collected the rewards offered for finding immortal and soul together in a sentence? ;)
     
  4. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    14,605
    Ratings:
    +1,796
    Does it have to be the Hebrew Bible we're basing everything on? And if so, why?
     
  5. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,193
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    Do you have a verse that denies this?
     
  6. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,313
    Ratings:
    +61
    etymology
    The Hebrew word for soul, nephesh, is variously translated "person" (Genesis 14:21), "self" (Leviticus 11:43), "life" (Psalm 31:13), "me" (Judges 16:30), "creature" (Genesis 1:21), "beast" (Leviticus 24:18), "man" (2 Kings 12:4), "thing" (Ezekiel 47:9), and "fish" (Isaiah 19:10). When translated "body" the nephesh is usually dead (Leviticus 21:11).The Greek word for soul, psuche, has the same meaning.

    to be a soul is to be alive.although i'm very sure by the statement that he meant to refer to the spirit which *scripturally*(biblically) is eternal(but not ours;ecc12:7) and seperates man from animal.

    Re 16:3-And the second poured out his bowl into the sea; and it became blood as of a dead man; and every living soul died, [even] the things that were in the sea.
     
  7. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,193
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    Context is appropriate here... Psuche can be used in much the same way that pneuma is used... the primary life force/spirit/soul

    But it can also be used literally... as the physical breath (or life).

    What "things" would have a soul that lived in the sea? Mermaids?

    Was this referring to a physical or spiritual death?

    Could this be referring to everything with a soul died PHYSICALLY?

    It's not clear because God wants it that way.
     
  8. huajiro

    huajiro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,625
    Ratings:
    +115
    Can I get an Amen?:jam:
     
  9. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,313
    Ratings:
    +61
    The sould and the spirit are seperate things(biblically speaking).

    The Biblical definition of a soul is simply a breathing body. Notice that the text does not say that man was given a soul, but rather he became a soul. A soul is not something a person has, it is the person. Souls have blood (Jeremiah 2:34). Not only are people souls, but so are fish and animals (Revelation 16:3).

    A soul is like the light that results when a light bulb is connected to a power source. The spirit, or breath of life, is the electric current.Electricity will produce light only while it is flowing through the bulb. When the filament in the bulb breaks, the electrical circuit is broken, and the light goes out.Just as the light cannot exist unless there is both electricity and a bulb, so there must be both the breath of life and a functional body in order for there to be a living soul.Thus the scriptures(bible) do(es) not refer to a soul in heaven.
     
  10. cardero

    cardero Citizen Mod

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Messages:
    11,110
    Ratings:
    +1,669
    I think the real question is “who do we want to BE?”



    I come from the “school of thought” that proclaims we do choose our physical existence and I also believe we have made plans for how we will exit it. I couldn’t imagine BEing forced into this physical existence for the PURPOSE of becoming an experiment for some Supreme BEing who believes they need/deserve/desire that we remain down here for a PURPOSE that we could just as easily fulfill wherever He resides.



    I do not think that we would endure the visit to a physical existence if we knew how we were going to die. I can contend to this because I do not like BEing told about a movie that someone has seen that I intend to go see. In fact I can’t think of anyone who does. What is interesting is that there have been many accounts of people becoming aware of when their time to die is near. I have heard them reported to the hour to a month to even people making provisions a year before they pass. Sometimes people just K(NOW) when it is their time to die.

    I like this last paragraph which is why I am sending you frubals.

     
  11. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,193
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    Again... psuche literally means "breath"

    pneuma literally means "wind"

    Like the word "love" in english... far too many meanings to even cover. We use love when we mean lust. We use love when we mean like. We have such a poor concept of "real love" because of the various contexts we use it in.

    Psuche and pneuma are synonyms in many ways... and yet we can use psuche in other ways as well... like for anything that breathes.

    It may be that soul is not the best translation for psuche in all instances. In the NIV this passage reads:
    Revelations 16:3 The second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it turned into blood like that of a dead man, and every living thing in the sea died.

    Obvisouly, I am not the only one who reads the Greek text in this manner.
     
  12. cardero

    cardero Citizen Mod

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Messages:
    11,110
    Ratings:
    +1,669
    I also believe that the soul is eternal I also believe that it is precluded from judgment.
    If I wanted to collect rewards for extra life I will indulge myself in a video game.
     
  13. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,193
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    But what is spiritual death anyway?

    Is it like Dante's inferno?

    Is it perfect darkness?

    Is it weeping and gnashing of teeth?
     
  14. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,193
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    Carderro,

    what if we merely judge ourselves? If we are given a choice, which do we follow?
     
  15. cardero

    cardero Citizen Mod

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Messages:
    11,110
    Ratings:
    +1,669
    I'm going to turn this thread up a notch.
    If we come across the knowledge of someone dying unfairly/immorally/uncomfortably how would we want them to die? Is there a CORRECT way to die? If the TRUTH has been established that everyone has to die and everyone has to exit this physical existence in some way how would we want our fellow humans to go? Should we even speculate? Should we even judge? Does GOD, K(NOW)ing full well the contrictions of our human bodies and the fact that we cannot stay on this planet forever, even care how we depart?
     
  16. cardero

    cardero Citizen Mod

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Messages:
    11,110
    Ratings:
    +1,669
    I believe it is a return to where we originated.

    I think at some time we do judge ourselves. I would expect a fair assessment of our lives would be witnessed in hindsight. I am firm believer in following our individual’s hearts rather than following someone else’s.

     
  17. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,193
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    Even death on a cross?
     
  18. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,193
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    Oh, we are talking about differnet "Judgments" here.

    Judgment as discernment: This one is better than that one.

    Judgment as sentence: You will die.

    The first will help me to determine my choices in life.

    The latter will be determined by my choices in life.
     
  19. cardero

    cardero Citizen Mod

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Messages:
    11,110
    Ratings:
    +1,669
    Especially death on a cross.

    Two of the more intersting things about Christ's death (if we are to believe the accounts of THE BIBLE) is the specualation of what Jesus would have done if he lived to a common/uncommon life expectancy. The other is the knowledge that Jesus supposedly knew when and how he was going to die. Of course we can visually speculate this on anyone who we have felt wasn't given "enough time" in their existence.
     
  20. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,193
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    Jesus' life focus was the cross.

    He had lots to do and little time to do it in.

    He did it for the "Joy that was set before him".

    What was far worse is that he died spiritually that day.

    "Eloi, eloi, lama sabach thani!"

    One of the only things that Jesus said that his disciple dared not translate.
     
Loading...