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Featured Reason to Believe

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Mock Turtle, Feb 21, 2018.

  1. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Respect, compassion, and understanding.
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    Religion:
    Often the quickest path from ignorance to arrogance
    (One of my favourite Tim Hardin songs, lol)

    I am sure this has been asked many times, but any willing to contribute would be appreciated. Given all the various religious beliefs, what exactly caused you to accept one particular belief over another given that there are essentially five choices, and any reasons for doing so:

    1. Leave it all in the air and make no choice.
    2. Believe that all religions are essentially correct in their own way - with of course reservations.
    3. Believe that some religions are essentially correct but others are not - again with reservations.
    4. Believe that one religion is true and all the rest necessarily are false - with reservations.
    5. Not believing any religion to be true - even though much of what they espouse will be true, or at least valuable.

    For me it is the last. My reason? Lack of evidence (or not sufficient unbiased evidence to be exact), hence the default position - that none are true. The last is the default position, rather than the first I believe, because one really does need to prove an assertion if one wants others to believe it. After all, religions make claims, but whether one accepts these claims or not is if one believes the evidence or not. I can understand some having the first belief but not really for those having the middle three, particularly given the number of different beliefs.

    Your reasons then?
     
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  2. Geoff-Allen

    Geoff-Allen Resident megalomaniac

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    Interesting thread ...

    I think this sums up my views -

    "If your understanding of the divine made you kinder, more empathetic, and impelled you to express sympathy in concrete acts of loving-kindness, this was good theology. But if your notion of God made you unkind, belligerent, cruel, or self-righteous, or if it led you to kill in God's name, it was bad theology."

    ~ Karen Armstrong
     
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  3. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    It is ironic to me that one of the principal points of evolutionary doctrine is that of 'the survival of fittest.'

    The reason that this is ironic to me is that believing in a religious doctrine and God - is all about survival: how to attain survival, even extremely long life.

    Thus, when I see your post, the first thing that comes to mind is - what do you get out of your stance?! If you gain nothing that aids in your prolonged survival, it has little value in my eyes.

    If God was known to simply exist, but it was also known that he had nothing to offer us gnats on this earth - his existence would be kind of seeing a star that is 1000's of light-years distant, interesting, but in the end, without any impact or importance on my life.
     
    #3 Grandliseur, Feb 21, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
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  4. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Then it's obvious you don't understand evolution.

    .
     
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  5. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    A little of all of them?
    I find this not productive. If we go through our lives waiting we'd never get anything done. Maybe no hard expectations but one still needs to do something.

    Correct, no. All have value, yes. Its not all negative. People abuse religion, religion doesnt abuse them.

    No. They are all valueable, only one (to me) is true.
    One religion true. Not true doesnt mean they are bad just not true.
    If religion you mean a spirtual tradition of carried dowm beliefs and practices from african faiths to hardstone buddhism, any are valueable not all are truth.

    Fact or fiction doesnt make the religion ethically right or wrong in itself. It cant do anything alone. We can see the examples of a said religion in its people. If the religion doesnt bring out the best in a person, its wrong. If it does, its right.

    My faith is true, ethically right, and valuable. Everyone who follows their religion as a devotion may feel likewise. If our actions show it, its right. If not, its wrong. But true and false is different. Whose criteria are we judging validity on theirs or ours?
     
  6. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I believe in both 2 and 4... Let me explain why.

    2. Believe that all religions are essentially correct in their own way - with of course reservations.

    I believe that the spiritual verities of all the religions such as faith, knowledge, certitude, justice, piety, righteousness, trustworthiness, love of God, benevolence, purity, detachment, humility, meekness, patience and constancy are the same in all the major religions, and that these are eternal truths that will never be abrogated; so I believe that are all religions are correct in that way.

    The reservations I have are regarding of older religions, because their social teachings and laws are no longer pertinent to this new day of mankind. Social teachings and laws are related to the material world which changes over time, so they need to be modified and altered in each prophetic cycle in accordance with the necessities of the times.

    4. Believe that one religion is true and all the rest necessarily are false - with reservations.

    I believe that only one religion is true during any age of history in the sense that this religion is the one that is current and contains the message from God for that age and it contains the new social teachings and laws that are needed for that age.

    The reservations I have are that the older religions are not necessarily false, but they are simply outdated and thus not very useful for the current age of mankind, compared to the new religion.

    To add to that, the reason I believe in the “new” religion, the Baha’i Faith, is because there is much more supporting evidence for it than there is for any of the older religions, especially because we have the original writings of the Prophet Founder rather than writings of unknown authors based upon oral tradition. Also, there is a much larger volume of scriptures, which we call Writings, and they contain scads of things that are useful for individual spiritual growth and the betterment of society, as well as a lot of mystical writings about the soul and the afterlife... :cool:

    I also believe my religion is the most logical because of the theology of Progressive Revelation which incorporates all the religions of the past as chapters in one Big Book of God. :)
     
  7. ExVasterist

    ExVasterist Ex-Member of RF (I'm a Ghost)

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    I actually wish the old ones were still around. Right now its pretty much about the same God, who's right & who's wrong, and who's faith is stronger & which is false.

    If the previous Deities were false, why did so many believe otherwise? Why didn't the apparent "True" one not step in and say "Hey, I'm the only God"?

    Why is there so many different beliefs surrounding the same God? Why can't they all just admit it? I don't really care what each person's differing religion is, they are all focused on the same one, and people will kill each other just because their beliefs are a tiny bit different.

    The Old beliefs were honestly more simpler. Soldier? You should follow Ares. Want to get Pregnant? Aphrodite. Want newfound knowledge? Thoth. What about a God that won't deny the existence of other Gods? All except Abraham's God. Want to fight & die along side a Deity? Odin. Want to cross the ocean without any trouble? Poseidon. Want to follow a Renegade God? You want Loki.
    But you can't anymore cause too many see them as myths and legends, all have been replaced by one that embodies all of them.

    Fun Fact: Months named after Deities:
    January - Janus, God of Gates, Doors, Choices, and Time.
    February - Februus, God of Purification.
    March - Mars, Roman version of Ares, The God of War.
    April - Aphrodite, Goddess of Fertility, Sex, and Love.
    May - Maia, Goddess of Spring.
    June - Juno, Goddess of Marriage and the well-being of women.
    July & August were named after Julius & Augustus Caesar.
    September to December are just English versions of the Roman's Seventh to Tenth (Decembre literally meant Ten in the Roman Calendar).

    Even the days of the Week were named after Deities.
     
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  8. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    I’ve read some of Karen Armstrong’s stuff. She never struck me as someone who’s particularly concerned with whether her beliefs are correct.
     
  9. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    I agree that religions are not about 'knowing the truth of God'. That is not possible. They are about gaining positive functionality, and effectiveness.

    Or they should be.
     
  10. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    Why do some many people continue with the false impression that anyone chooses what they believe (about anything)? Belief is just a function of knowledge, experience and mind-set, generated automatically whether you like it or not. We all implicitly know this is true because we know we can’t take something we don’t believe and simply make ourselves believe it’s the truth, however much we might wish it was.
     
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  11. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Respect, compassion, and understanding.
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    Religion:
    Often the quickest path from ignorance to arrogance
    Quite .. it is fitness for the environment that counts .. not one's ability to kick seven bells out of anyone seen as a rival.
     
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  12. 1137

    1137 Thelemite
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    I think most gods exist and many create religions, but that those deities and religions end up so much different (yet still so similar) because of cultural biases and such. This can be influenced by all sorts of things like geography, the changing of seasons, reliance on rain or certain food, etc and so on.
     
  13. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Respect, compassion, and understanding.
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    Religion:
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    It seems to me that we have rather different values. What has my survival value got to do with any truth?

    Probably like reality then.
     
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  14. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Respect, compassion, and understanding.
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    Religion:
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    Why? Is not living enough for us? Some of us can live without concrete answers to everything. And I know I have few of those. Happy? No. But I can live with that.
     
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  15. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Respect, compassion, and understanding.
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    Religion:
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    Really? You had no religious upbringing, no religious influences in your life, and hence just suddenly formed your belief in a moment of inspiration? Belief is a function of knowledge but how wide we embrace any available knowledge might very well influence why we do or do not believe - in anything. I tend to choose on the best available information, and I can assure you it is not generated automatically.
     
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  16. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I had no religious upbringing but a whole load of mostly Christin influences in my life, including a period of semi-enforced church attendance via Scouting. My beliefs and general world view didn’t suddenly form but evolved and developed over many years and, to some extent, still is. We seem to have reached a similar conclusion as it happens.

    We certainly have some influence over the sources and forms of information that our conclusions are based on but we can’t control that entirely and we can’t force the conclusions our unconscious mind will reach based on them. My point remains that we can’t directly choose what we believe.
     
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  17. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Doing nothing is literaly staying on the couch watching t.v. Doing something may be praying, taking care of family, maybe travel, or find work or contribute to a cause.

    Doing nothing is literally doing nothing. I know no religion nor path that doesnt have an act involved in it whether it be by community, self care, devotion, or just connecting with friends or family.
     
  18. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Respect, compassion, and understanding.
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    Religion:
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    We'll have to agree to disagree then.
     
  19. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Respect, compassion, and understanding.
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    Religion:
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    I think you just described living. Nothing against that (obviously). It's how we do this that counts, and I think that is eminently possible without any religious belief. Our long-lost ancestors no doubt managed before religion captured them.
     
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  20. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    So you can’t just choose to believe what I’m saying then? ;)
     
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  21. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I don't see religion separate from a way of life. Religion at its core is basically: gratitude,self care, service say giving, balance, and other values. We can live and practice religion (sectional life)by ritual(meditate, take care family, get out daily...by affirmation,encouraging self you can succeed, being with people who doesn't conflict with your values. Its a way of living. Without religion-form of gratitude,-what and how do you "express" thanks.
     
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