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Really, what would Jesus do?
- Thread starter HOGCALLER
- Start date
Gerani, could you give me your definition of a christian fundamentalist please.
Ardhanariswar
I'm back!
"A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance (!!!) of other views and opposition to secularism. "
this is my definition. a christian who takes everything literally, regardless of the history behind the bible. this includes the mystery of jesus and his brother, if they really were brothers, or if they just called them brothers in the way i would call my friend 'wad up bro'. fundamentalists take this literally, not giving a single thought to other possible theories. the pronounce everything in the bible is true and all other scripture is *of the devil*.
is that closemindedness? what is YOUR definition of closemindedness?
this is my definition. a christian who takes everything literally, regardless of the history behind the bible. this includes the mystery of jesus and his brother, if they really were brothers, or if they just called them brothers in the way i would call my friend 'wad up bro'. fundamentalists take this literally, not giving a single thought to other possible theories. the pronounce everything in the bible is true and all other scripture is *of the devil*.
is that closemindedness? what is YOUR definition of closemindedness?
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
Get back on topic, gentlemen and take this other conversation to PM or a new thread, please.
I agree with Hogcaller's original post. I think many people (then and now) misunderstood Jesus' comments about the kingdom of heaven, kingdom of God. Worldly and temporal concerns diminish if you follow Jesus' path. Changing oneself is the true message, not converting/judging/hating/killing others.
"Abandon wrongdoing. It can be done. If there were no likelihood, I would not ask you to do it. But since it is possible and since it brings blessing and happiness, I do ask of you: abandon wrongdoing.
Cultivate doing good. It can be done. If it brought deprivation and sorrow, I would not ask you to do it. But since it brings blessing and happiness, I do ask of you: cultivate doing good."
This is my version of repentance and conversion. Not a quote from Jesus, but doesn't it sound closer to his message than fire and brimstone threats? Simply put, "Go, and sin no more." "Love one another."
Cultivate doing good. It can be done. If it brought deprivation and sorrow, I would not ask you to do it. But since it brings blessing and happiness, I do ask of you: cultivate doing good."
This is my version of repentance and conversion. Not a quote from Jesus, but doesn't it sound closer to his message than fire and brimstone threats? Simply put, "Go, and sin no more." "Love one another."
oncelostnowfound
New Member
mahayana i could not have said it better , job well done.to believe that you could follow JESUS and not abandon wrongdoing or not cultivate doing good is rediculous ! a tree is known by the fruit that it bears . a tree that produces pecans will never be an apple tree ,no matter what you call the tree , regardless of where it is planted...
The problem arises when "what should I do?/what would Jesus do?" changes to "what should YOU do?/what would Jesus do?" The first is manageable, though often not easy; the second nearly impossible and a leap into politics, judging, criticizing, frustration because others don't do as we wish.
Lady Marva began with the "just war" arguement, which is really about those who choose to kill to protect those who do not kill (from others who choose to kill). A pertinent subject in a time of war, when our taxes buy bombs, so many reject Jesus' teachings of pacifism. "Blessed are the peacemakers." I suppose the question is whether you consider killing to be wrongdoing, always a sin.
Lady Marva began with the "just war" arguement, which is really about those who choose to kill to protect those who do not kill (from others who choose to kill). A pertinent subject in a time of war, when our taxes buy bombs, so many reject Jesus' teachings of pacifism. "Blessed are the peacemakers." I suppose the question is whether you consider killing to be wrongdoing, always a sin.
mahayana
Do you mean this is a problem in the sense that Satan, the world we live in and that he controls and our own imperfections always cause us problems? Or is it some other problem to which you refer?
Let me ask you another question. The situation is that the ancient nation of Israel was rejected by God at Jesus' death and was replaced by the "Israel of God", a spiritual nation, with its citizens drawnout of this old world from every tribe, tongue, people and nation. That means every single person living on the face of the earth at any given time since Jesus death is either our brother or our potential brother. Therefore, as far as a Christian is concerned, Can there be such a thing as a "just war"?
In Jesus' day Israel was subject to the Roman world power that ruthlessly enforced the "Pax Romana" or the Roman peace. It did so by stationing garrisons of its army all over the empire and then heavily taxing the subject states to support its wars and its armies of occupation. See my original post regarding Matthew 22:15. This should help you understand the nature of the question Jesus was asked regarding taxes. Yet what was his answer? It was to pay Caesars things to Caesar. How could Jesus advocate paying taxes to support ruthless armies of occupation?
One final question for you to think about. At John 4:22 Jesus told a woman, "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews." Jesus certainly sounds dogmatic doesn't he? Actually he wasn't being dogmatic, he was just convinced. Is there anything wrong with that?
Do you mean this is a problem in the sense that Satan, the world we live in and that he controls and our own imperfections always cause us problems? Or is it some other problem to which you refer?
Let me ask you another question. The situation is that the ancient nation of Israel was rejected by God at Jesus' death and was replaced by the "Israel of God", a spiritual nation, with its citizens drawnout of this old world from every tribe, tongue, people and nation. That means every single person living on the face of the earth at any given time since Jesus death is either our brother or our potential brother. Therefore, as far as a Christian is concerned, Can there be such a thing as a "just war"?
In Jesus' day Israel was subject to the Roman world power that ruthlessly enforced the "Pax Romana" or the Roman peace. It did so by stationing garrisons of its army all over the empire and then heavily taxing the subject states to support its wars and its armies of occupation. See my original post regarding Matthew 22:15. This should help you understand the nature of the question Jesus was asked regarding taxes. Yet what was his answer? It was to pay Caesars things to Caesar. How could Jesus advocate paying taxes to support ruthless armies of occupation?
One final question for you to think about. At John 4:22 Jesus told a woman, "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews." Jesus certainly sounds dogmatic doesn't he? Actually he wasn't being dogmatic, he was just convinced. Is there anything wrong with that?
Good questions, HC. I sense that we agree about the message, though from differing perspectives.
When you're in the world (of sin, error, absudity?) but not of the world, you do give the soldier your coat (and the shirt off your back!) and carry his pack the extra mile. You cease attachment to changing others, rather choose to serve the least among them.
Attempts to change the world can appear as charging windmills, and universal salvation seems a distant goal. "Rejoice when you are persecuted for my namesake" is another hard teaching. Balanced perhaps by the Presence, where two or more are gathered in His name?
When you're in the world (of sin, error, absudity?) but not of the world, you do give the soldier your coat (and the shirt off your back!) and carry his pack the extra mile. You cease attachment to changing others, rather choose to serve the least among them.
Attempts to change the world can appear as charging windmills, and universal salvation seems a distant goal. "Rejoice when you are persecuted for my namesake" is another hard teaching. Balanced perhaps by the Presence, where two or more are gathered in His name?
To continue with the subject of "war, what would Jesus do?": Hogcaller asserted that since the time of Jesus all people are our brothers (or potential brothers).
President Bush, in one of his radio addresses, said "Terrorists are cold; we have to kill these guys before they kill us."
To my mind, one cannot become a soldier and follow Jesus' example. Or direct others to use violence as a means to noble goals. Wars produce piles of dead bodies, desires for revenge that last for generations, piles of rubble rather than construction. Is this what God (or Allah) really want?
President Bush, in one of his radio addresses, said "Terrorists are cold; we have to kill these guys before they kill us."
To my mind, one cannot become a soldier and follow Jesus' example. Or direct others to use violence as a means to noble goals. Wars produce piles of dead bodies, desires for revenge that last for generations, piles of rubble rather than construction. Is this what God (or Allah) really want?
blood-lord14
Member
jesus WOULD save the world IF he ever EXISTED.
How nice that you found the shift key.blood-lord14 said:
Faminedynasty
Active Member
Ahahahahaha. I'm basically Jesus.Darkdale said:
Well, while I can't say specifically what Jesus would do, to my mind, Jesus would never support any war. Not even in self defense. And I don't believe that any true Christian ever could either. It is in direct opposition to the very core nature of his teachings. He was a true believer and to him, it was worse to resort to violence than to die. To a true believer afterall, death means only meeting your heavenly reward. Resorting to violence for something as petty as your earthly life only threatens this reward, which is far more important. So in my view, Christians cannot support war and must be willing to die for their conviction to love and peace. Thankfully I am not a Christian.
What would we do, we would make a web-site, fix the books, take the Bible to court and remove all Pharisee texts...John, Paul and Simon
Correct 13 months in the year.
Cannabis back in the anointing oil as meant and officially announced by the Hebrew university in 1980, which would then heal many illnesses.
Open the churches and sell the gold they have to help the poor.
Make bread of life from horse chestnut which can cure aids and many rare immune system illnesses.
Just some of the thing we would like to achieve...and have been asked to build a temple/gardens/house of God....south east of Jerusalem on a mound it is meant on...not north of Jerusalem where started.
Unite the religions with the books fixed.
Correct the 13 dimensions, so science doesnt blow us all up.
Fix the water shrine for nature not man in the Hawaiian islands.
Develop the perpetual motion generator, we have been given, fix climate change and re-irrigate Africa.
Plant fig trees from echo cave with the deepest root system, as to reach the under water basin before Israel and the land surrounding collapses due to lack of support with out oil to hold the weight.
Plant horse chestnut across the whole region that use to be Eden and rebuild what was taken.
Change the state to democratic communism (more like a kingdom with a true democratic elected council and not democratic commercialism or capitalism.)
Correct 13 months in the year.
Cannabis back in the anointing oil as meant and officially announced by the Hebrew university in 1980, which would then heal many illnesses.
Open the churches and sell the gold they have to help the poor.
Make bread of life from horse chestnut which can cure aids and many rare immune system illnesses.
Just some of the thing we would like to achieve...and have been asked to build a temple/gardens/house of God....south east of Jerusalem on a mound it is meant on...not north of Jerusalem where started.
Unite the religions with the books fixed.
Correct the 13 dimensions, so science doesnt blow us all up.
Fix the water shrine for nature not man in the Hawaiian islands.
Develop the perpetual motion generator, we have been given, fix climate change and re-irrigate Africa.
Plant fig trees from echo cave with the deepest root system, as to reach the under water basin before Israel and the land surrounding collapses due to lack of support with out oil to hold the weight.
Plant horse chestnut across the whole region that use to be Eden and rebuild what was taken.
Change the state to democratic communism (more like a kingdom with a true democratic elected council and not democratic commercialism or capitalism.)
