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Featured Really scratching my head about this one.please help.:(

Discussion in 'Religions Q&A' started by Frank Goad, Dec 23, 2018.

  1. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Active Member

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    In the jw belief system the spirit is just life force and is impersonal.But if that is true what about 1 cor 5:5?How does go with Ps. 146:4?:(
     
    #1 Frank Goad, Dec 23, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018
  2. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    Who said anything about life force. What is life force anyway, is that anything like the force of Star Wars? What are the Hebrew / Aramaic / Greek / Latin words for spirit and how are they used? Where are they ever translated into English "life force." Where does the term "life force" occur in scripture?
     
  3. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Active Member

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  4. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    If you want a JW perspective, I'd suggest asking other JW members.

    It's no skin off my nose if JW beliefs are contradictory.
     
  5. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find since the 'spirit of life' is an " IT " according to Ecclesiastes 12:7, ...and "it" returns to God.
    So, those unconscious dead people ( Psalms 115:17; Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 ) are in a sleep-like state.
    So, as a foreclosed house does Not move or go anywhere, but just goes back into the owner's hands, then one's spirit (it) returns to God in that any future life prospect (resurrection) now rests in God's safe hands.

    Those immoral people of 1 Corinthians 5 were to be held morally responsible for their actions.
    The congregation was Not to keep company with un-repentant immoral members as per 1 Corinthians 5:11-13.
    That keeps immorality from seeping into the congregation, and hopefully will bring the immoral person back to wanting to be moral. ( come back from being spiritually dead )
    Plus, I find one can read more at www.jw.org and Jehovah's Witnesses Broadcasting.
     
    #5 URAVIP2ME, Dec 23, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018
  6. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I wonder which one of JW beliefs do you find contradictory. Contradictory with Scripture.
     
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  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I see nothing contradictory about Genesis 2:7 because Adam 'became' a living soul, a living person.
    It does Not say Adam 'had a soul', nor does it say Adam 'possessed a soul'.
    Rather, Adam was a soul or person.
    After God fashioned Adam, then God breathed the ' breath of life ' into lifeless Adam, that is when Adam become a living soul, and at Adam's death then Adam become a dead soul or a life-less soul as per Genesis 3:19.
    Adam ' returned ' to the dust. A person can Not ' return ' to a place he never was before.
    No where does it say there was a post-mortem penalty for Adam - just returning to dust where he started from.
     
  8. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Uh. Contradicting Co. and Psalms [in OP]. not Genesis. Only because the first two arent in Jewish scripture. Has nothing to do with Genesis.
     
  9. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Adam became a living soul and at death I find Adam become a dead soul, a life-less soul or person.
    The soul that sins dies according to Ezekiel 18:4,20. So, the sinning person dies.
    Adam did Not have or posses an immortal soul, Adam was a soul or person according to Genesis 2:7.
    And, at death Adam simply ' returned ' to where he started which is the dust of the ground - Genesis 3:19.
    If the soul was immortal there would be No need for a resurrection, the immortal do Not need a resurrection.
     
  10. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Please see post # 8.
     
  11. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Sorry. Wrong reference with the jewish links. This is better:

    Speaking about man’s death, Ecclesiastes 12:7states: “The dust [of his body] returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it.” When the spirit, or life-force, leaves the body, the body dies and returns to where it came from—the earth. Comparably, the life-force returns to where it came from—God. (Job 34:14, 15; Psalm 36:9) This does not mean that the life-force actually travels to heaven.

    https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/what-is-a-soul-spirit-meaning/

    JW doesnt believe in an eternal soul, life force that is separate from the body.
    A further study of God’s Word will show you that nowhere in the entire Bible are the terms “immortal” or “everlasting” linked with the word “soul.” Instead, the Scriptures state that a soul is mortal, meaning that it dies. (Ezekiel 18:4, 20) Therefore, the Bible calls someone who has died simply a “dead soul.”—Leviticus 21:11, footnote.

    https://www.jw.org/en/publications/...f-dbcb29aa4912&insight[search_result_index]=0

    What you posted correlates to JW teaching.

    It doesnt correlate with christian/church teaching since the latter believes there is as soul/source of human life that continues and joins with god after death.
     
  12. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Umm. What are you talking about?

    The JW teach there is no suol/spirit after death The scripture in the OP confirms that.

    So.....?
     
  13. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Uh. Contradicting Co. and Psalms [in OP]. not Genesis. Only because the first two arent in Jewish scripture. Has nothing to do with Genesis.

    The OP is talking about Corinthians. and Pslams not Genesis. The jewish scripture does not have Co. Psalms. (What you are saying) has nothing to do with Genesis.
     
  14. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    @URAVIP2ME

    You gotta read my posts. Anyway. I just mixed up two other posts about jews so I deleted it.

    JW doesnt teach about the soul/spirit in the afterlife. The two verses the OP mentioned had to do with the day of the resurrection and, the latter, eternal death.

    The OP misreferenced JW of believing in an inpersonal life force incorrectly when it says:

    A further study of God’s Word will show you that nowhere in the entire Bible are the terms “immortal” or “everlasting” linked with the word “soul.” Instead, the Scriptures state that a soul is mortal, meaning that it dies. (Ezekiel 18:4, 20) Therefore, the Bible calls someone who has died simply a “dead soul.”—Leviticus 21:11, footnote.

    https://www.jw.org/en/publications/...f-dbcb29aa4912&insight[search_result_index]=0
     
  15. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Since the Bible was Not originally written in English but Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic (No Latin), then we find words like ru'ach, pneu'ma, ko'ach, dyna.mis, in connection to God's spirit (Psalms 104:30).
    I find, God's invisible power, energy, strength, and force, so the word ' force' then ' projects or exerts ' the needed power, the strength or the energy needed.
    So, when Adam received the 'breath of life' he received more than breathing in and out, but the spirit of life's force.
    Adam, like us, did Not have to think to keep breathing in and out, but that is within our life's spirit or life's force.

    As my high school English teacher said the English language is Not as comprehensive language as it should be.
    When one student asked then 'what is the most comprehensive language' she answered: Hebrew.
    So, then subject and context should be taken into consideration in translating.
     
  16. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find the word ' afterlife ' means being more alive after death than before death.
    So, to me there is a BIG difference between the afterlife teaching and scriptural resurrection.- Revelation 1:18.
    Afterlife means No interruption in life, whereas Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the ' future tense ' that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection..... That future resurrection will take place under Christ's 1,000-year reign over Earth.
    The living (afterlife) would Not need a resurrection, but the unconscious dead do - Ecclesiastes 9:5.
     
  17. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    [QUOTE="Unveiled Artist, post: 5907410, member: 55631
    The OP is talking about Corinthians. and Pslams not Genesis. The jewish scripture does not have Co. Psalms[/QUOTE]

    The last time I looked I found the Psalms are part of the Jewish Scripture. Many psalms composed by King David.
     
  18. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Please see post # 5
     
  19. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    The last time I looked I found the Psalms are part of the Jewish Scripture. Many psalms composed by King David.[/QUOTE]

    Just going by the first five books themselves. Whether christian books are interpreted into jewish scriptures I can't debate. I just see it sad that I'm glad I don't have anything to add.

    But, I would have to know what you know culture wise. Anyone can be a educated and academic but from experience if you don't have the culture and language it's all interpetation.
     
  20. Deeje

    Deeje Deeje
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    1 Corinthians 5:5...."you must hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord."

    As I am not comfortable examining verses out of context, I will quote the whole passage....Paul wrote.....

    "Actually sexual immorality is reported among you, and such immorality as is not even found among the nations—of a man living with* his father’s wife. 2 And are you proud of it? Should you not rather mourn, so that the man who committed this deed should be taken away from your midst? 3 Although absent in body, I am present in spirit, and I have already judged the man who has done this, as if I were actually with you. 4 When you are gathered together in the name of our Lord Jesus, and knowing that I am with you in spirit along with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 you must hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord."

    In the Greek interlinear verse 5 says....
    "hand paradidōmi this man toioutos over · ho to ho Satan Satanas for eis the destruction olethros of the ho flesh sarx, so that hina the ho spirit pneuma may be saved sōzō on en the ho Day hēmera of the ho Lord kyrios."

    Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 - Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament

    Some translations say "his spirit" which is not what is written in the Greek. It was "the spirit" of the congregation that was to be saved by removing this man's immoral influence.

    It is explained this way on jw.org....

    "Overseers of that congregation had not expelled this person, but Paul urged them to “hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh.” They were to put him out of the Christian congregation into the world ruled by Satan the Devil and where destruction awaits. (1 John 5:19) Why take this action? As Paul said, “in order that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord,” Jesus Christ.—1 Cor. 5:3-5.

    8 This man had to be disfellowshiped if the “spirit,” or spirituality of the congregation, based upon God’s Word, was to be saved. Otherwise, ‘a little leaven would ferment the whole lump,’ that is, a spiritually corrupting influence would permeate the congregation and Jehovah would cut off that congregation. Today it is just as vital that the congregation’s spirit, based on Jehovah’s inspired Word, be saved.—1 Cor. 5:6."


    There is no confusion unless you read that text the wrong way. ( i.e not in accord with the teachings of the Bible as a whole.)

    If you assume that man has an immortal spirit that departs from the body at death, because you were raised with this idea, then you may think that a verse such as this one is proof of the correctness of that belief. But the opposite is true. There is no verse in the whole Bible that says that the soul and the spirit are the same thing. Neither is there a single verse where the words "immortal" and "soul" ever appear together.

    The Bible's teaching is clear.....man is a soul (a living breathing creature) and the "spirit" that animates him is sustained by breathing. When Adam was created, his body was brought to life when God started him breathing. When we breathe our last breath, the soul dies. (Ezekiel 18:4. Psalm 146:4)
     
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