1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Really can you eat meat?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by jewscout, Dec 22, 2004.

  1. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,261
    Ratings:
    +558
    I don't think this has to do with food/meat but rather food for the soul (i.e. his Word)

    Melody
     
  2. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,261
    Ratings:
    +558
    Kosher diet is based on the food laws found in Leviticus - no pork, etc. or is it vegetarian? We used to sell a kosher glycerin and I often wondered what that meant.

    Melody
     
  3. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    15,370
    Ratings:
    +1,653
    Druidus, We still do ;) You don't know the people I know. My 'brother' raised his own meat for many years and worked as a butcher. He provided his clients with a service where thier animals would be killed in a respectful way. Many of his clients were not natives, but they chose to have him do the slaughtering because they felt that the animals deserved that respect before they died. They didn't like the 'normal' way.
    while the 'modern' way may be 'normal' I think that is because we are 1) poorly educated about the modern meat industry and 2) most do not have access to, or know where to find alternitives.
    The only way to change this is to educate people about the alternitives and where to find them.
    Simply telling people that they are bad for eating meat will only make them less likely to hear your point of view.
    Respect can be revived. We are not extinct and neither is it.

    wa:do
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2004
    Messages:
    3,816
    Ratings:
    +515
    By no means do I say that all respect is gone, but there is very little respect in factory farming.

    And I don't mean to come off as if I'm sayinf people are bad if they eat meat. I'm just saying I don't feel that it's right for me, because I like being healthier, and not causing nearly as much suffering.
     
  5. huajiro

    huajiro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,625
    Ratings:
    +115
    Go Druidus!!!! Go Druidus!!!
     
  6. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2004
    Messages:
    9,497
    Ratings:
    +927
    I believe it's in Leviticus, no pork, only fish with both scales and fins, no shell fish, no predatory animals and only animals with cloven hoves that chew thier own cud.
    Actually i had a rabbi once tell me it's easier to just be a vegitarian then there's no question it's Kosher...but i gotta eat meat:D it's delicious mmmmmmm
     
  7. Isis-Astoroth

    Isis-Astoroth Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Messages:
    189
    Ratings:
    +19
    Traditional Satanism has no food restrictions though individuals may choose to fast for certain rituals or celebration days. I eat meat because I feel it is part of my diet which I cannot do without. Humans have eaten meat since the beginning of their existence, and I don't understand why I should be any different. However, if the meat industry doesn't improve I may very well become a vegetarian.
     
  8. huajiro

    huajiro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,625
    Ratings:
    +115
    That is something that I find very funny. I know many, many. many vegetarians that are doing very well without meat. People are very surprised when they found out that I eat no meat whatsoever, because I am pretty muscular.....you feel it is something you can't live without. You wouldn't know until you tried to live without it.....try it. Then, you can say "I don't kill other living beings needlessly, because i know I can live without it".
     
  9. Isis-Astoroth

    Isis-Astoroth Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Messages:
    189
    Ratings:
    +19
    By eating meat I am not killing animals needlessly. No-one can say I eat just for the sake of it, because I eat only what my body needs. I am not a fan of overindulgence in food. We all need to eat and I am not greatly fond of the diet preferred by vegetarians.
     
  10. huajiro

    huajiro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,625
    Ratings:
    +115
    So it is not need, yet selfishness which makes you eat meat.
     
  11. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2004
    Messages:
    3,816
    Ratings:
    +515
    Humans are herbivorous by design. As we are not designed to consume the flesh, muscles, and organs of animals, there are significant health risks involved with a meat-centered diet. More and more evidence is surfacing that directly links a prolonged carnivorous/omnivorous diet to such diseases as osteoporosis, many cancers, heart disease, diabetes, and asthma just to name a few. Keep in mind, it's only been just recently that smoking has been recognized as a health and environmental hazard. In fact, the evidence regarding the dangers of a meat-centered diet is mounting so quickly that a group of eminent doctors called the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM), themselves members of the American Medical Association (AMA), have gathered to change the U.S. consciousness on human nutrition, particularly among the medical community. The PCRM is a nonprofit organization based in Washington, D.C., consisting of doctors and lay persons working together for compassionate and effective medical practice, research and health promotion. Founded in 1985, the PCRM is supported by over 3,000 physicians and 50,000 lay persons.

    Not everyone is aware of the fact that humans are built herbivorous.

    Human characteristics are in every way like other fruit eating animals (even similar to grass-eaters in several respects), and very unlike the meat eaters and omnivores, as is clearly shown in the table below. The human digestive system, tooth and jaw structure, and bodily functions are completely different from carnivorous animals. As in the case of the anthropoid ape, the human digestive system is twelve times the length of the body; our skin has millions of tiny pores to evaporate water and cool the body by sweating; we drink water by suction like all other vegetarian animals; our tooth and jaw structure is vegetarian; and our saliva is alkaline and contains ptyalin for predigestion of grains. Human beings clearly are not carnivores by physiology -- our anatomy and digestive system show that we must have evolved for millions of years living on fruits, nuts, grains, and vegetables.

    Furthermore, it is obvious that our natural instincts are non-carnivorous. Most people have other people kill their meat for them and would be sickened if they had to do the killing themselves. Instead of eating raw meat as all flesh-eating animals do, humans boil, bake, or fry it and disguise it with all kinds of sauces and spices so that it bears no resemblance to its raw state. One scientist explains it this way: "A cat will salivate with hungry desire at the smell of a piece of raw flesh but not at all at the smell of fruit. If man could delight in pouncing upon a bird, tear its still-living limbs apart with his teeth, and suck the warm blood, one might conclude that nature provided him with meat-eating instinct. On the other hand, a bunch of luscious grapes makes his mouth water, and even in the absence of hunger he will eat fruit because it tastes so good."

    Scientists and naturalists, including the great Charles Darwin who gave the theory of evolution, agree that early humans were fruit and vegetable eaters and that throughout history our anatomy has not changed. The great Swedish scientist von Linné states: "Man's structure, external and internal, compared with that of the other animals, shows that fruit and succulent vegetables constitute his natural food." So it is clear from scientific studies that physiologically, anatomically, and instinctively, man is perfectly suited to a diet for fruit, vegetables, nuts, and grains.

    A few myths:

    How do you get enough protein?

    Easily. The meat and dairy industries have been basing their claims that we require significant amounts of animal protein on a now discredited study done in 1914 on rats by a pair of researchers named Osborn and Mendel. You'd almost get enough protein accidentally from vegetables and fruits. In fact, animal protein leads to a shorter life-span and higher rates of cancer and other diseases, so obtaining protein through vegetables and fruits is significantly advantageous over animal-based sources.

    Calcium! You need calcium! What about osteoporosis?

    Yes. We all need calcium. However, obtaining calcium from dairy sources is counter-productive as the animal protein that's also in those dairy sources actually leeches more calcium from your body than the dairy is providing. This one simple fact is why the countries with the highest per-capita dairy consumption also have the highest osteoporosis rates. There are many sources of calcium available outside of animal products.
    Supporting studies and more information: www.strongbones.org
    and: Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine



    • More than half of all water used for all purposes in the U.S. is consumed in livestock production. The amount of water used in production of the average cow is sufficient to float a US Navy destroyer.
    • While 25 gallons of water are needed to produce a pound of wheat, 5,000 gallons are needed to produce a pound of California beef.
    • It takes nearly 78 calories of fossil fuel (oil, natural gas, etc) energy to produce 1 calory of beef protein and only 2 calories of fossil fuel energy to produce 1 calory of soybean. If every human ate a meat-centered diet, the world's known oil reserves would last a mere 13 years. Note that this also has a negative impact on our atmosphere (eg. global warming). They would last 260 years if humans stopped eating meat altogether. That's 20 times longer, giving humanity ample time to develop alternative energy sources.
    • 33% of all raw materials (base products of farming, forestry and mining, including fossil fuels) consumed by the U.S. are devoted to the production of livestock, as compared with the 2% that would be required produce a complete vegetarian diet.
    • 260 million acres of U.S. forest land has been cleared for cropland to produce the meat-centered diet. 55 squarefeet of tropical rain forest is consumed to produce every quarter-pound of rain forest beef. An alarming 75% of all U.S. topsoil has been lost to date. 85% of this loss is directly related to livestock raising.
    A lot of vegan's talk about the 'ethical' issues behind veganism. Isn't this a bit extreme?

    Judge for yourself. Some of the pictures contained below can be disturbing. Our intent is not to shock anyone, but rather to finally illuminate what really happens behind the scenes -- what has to happen so that people can 'enjoy' an omelette, or a burger, or a glass of milk.


    Here's a gallery of pictures.
    Another set of pictures.
    Some battery cage pictures
    noDowners.org - 'Downers' are livestock/dairy/'meat' animals that can no longer stand due to illness or injuries and are often left to die where they lie -- however long that takes.

    Eggs. More pictures. Depsite their horrendous nutritional impact, treatment of those that lay the eggs is worse. Ever seen loads of live baby chicks thrown into dumpsters to die? Here's your chance. One man's description of a visit to a slaughterhouse.
    Another's thoughts on and excerpts from the Details article, "Meat is Murder".
     
  12. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2004
    Messages:
    3,816
    Ratings:
    +515
    An article entitled "Yesterday's Food Will Become Tomorrow's Food":

    [/font]
     
  13. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2004
    Messages:
    3,816
    Ratings:
    +515
    5 Characters...
     
  14. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2004
    Messages:
    3,816
    Ratings:
    +515
    Five Characters...
     
  15. Isis-Astoroth

    Isis-Astoroth Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Messages:
    189
    Ratings:
    +19
    Selfishness? Does the lion think he is being selfish when he hunts the antelope? Humans are animals, I am an animal, and am given teeth to tear meat. Being selfish is eating more than you need.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2004
    Messages:
    3,816
    Ratings:
    +515
    Is the lion's natural food plant-matter? Can the lion survive, and indeed, prosper, on a plant-based diet? No. Meanwhile, you can. The only reason to eat meat is a pleasant taste. You are not "given" teeth to tear meat. You evolved your teeth, which are suited for fruits, nuts, vegetables, tubers, and other plant matter. In comparisons with other animals, carnivores, herbivores, and omnivores, we are plainly herbivores. Your analogy is a false analogy. While you are an animal, you also have hands. These hands can be used to rip out the throats of other people. Does the mere fact that you have the ability to do something mean that you are right to do it? Does "might make right"?

    Having the concern that you may not have a certain trivial taste while not caring about the suffering of other beings fits the definition of selfishness.

    I do not claim anyone to be wrong to eat meat. I merely state that I don't, because I feel it would be selfish of me.
     
  17. maike

    maike Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2004
    Messages:
    29
    Ratings:
    +1
    I would like to see all meat eating people slaughter their own creatures for meat. Look into the beasts eye as you slit its throat and see if you see your compassionate god there. look into the eyes of your faithful dog and ask yourself if your could butcher chop up and eat him or her. A pig has as much or more inteligence as a dog. So God gave you dominion over the animals, which means you can treat them inhumanly, drive them to madness then murder them to satisfy your selfish need for gluttony. A couple of hundred years ago American Christians had dominance over Negros kidnapped from africa, i bet in times of famine they were eaten too, guess the priests were ok with that then.
    These days so much food resource is put into producing meat for the rich western countries that over half the earths population is living and dying in hunger. where is the 'Christian' values in that.
    A cruelty free diet shows respect for your God, your fellow living creatures that were made by God as companions for Adam so why the hell wouldn't he have given them a soul,(they didn't turn Adam on that much so Woman was eventually produced), the environment (meat production is the number one polluter, land clearer and waster of water), and your own body (which was made in the image of god and is a temple to the Lord. Does God want his temple full of fat, blood, grissle, cancer, diabetes, heart disease, colesterol ????)
     
  18. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2004
    Messages:
    9,497
    Ratings:
    +927
    hmmm lets see....
    yes i have slaughtered my own animals (deer hunting mmmm bambi burgers are delicious and kosher!), and i suppose if i were hungry enough i could slaughter my own dog...if i had one...that's given that in a scenario like that we are probably both starving and he doesn't eat me first.
    i dare you to find me a credible source that says that!:tsk:
    and that's a horrible thing and i think we should offer both food and resources to help solve that problem.
    perhaps you have some links to offer that we could contribute to, i know many on this forum have posted them and your contributions would be helpful and welcome
    Hey get off your high horse man....let me give you some learning:
    HITLER WAS A VEGETARIAN!
    ooo you like that don't ya?
     
  19. huajiro

    huajiro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,625
    Ratings:
    +115
    Humans only think we are superior beings when it works to our advantage....part of being a "superior" being is our ability to reason. You have no problem putting yourself in the food chain when you think you are on the top.....I would love to see what you'd say if that lion were allowed to take you to the check out line at the local supermarket.
     
  20. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2004
    Messages:
    3,816
    Ratings:
    +515
    I wouldn't say it necessarily DID happen, but it is likely that if there was extreme famine, they would be eaten.

    I'm not on a high horse. I'm only stating facts, and what I believe. However, I do see where some might believe that vegetarians have a "holier-than-thou" attitude, especially from a few posts I have read...



    Indeed. He was also a human. And a male. He drank water. He ate food. He sometimes urinated. At night, he would sleep. He had a wife, and two kids. He had hair.

    A list of other vegetarians:

    Writers, Artists, Poets & Philosophers:
     
Loading...