Realizing that no mocking or blasphemy harms the believer in God

[firedragon]

How to say this. Can you have empathy for wicced people in that without god they still find spirituality or moral outlook that's more appropriate for them than the abrahamic god?

Can you learn something from these people?

You think empathy is learning something from a people?

 

[firedragon]

i would say you are being dishonest, but this is not a debate forum.

Why?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

As the OP indicate my view of blasphemy has changed since that time i wrote about it, i know what comment you refering to, and i can say that i still struggle to understand why someone want to use blasphemic words about religion, but i no longer see a reason to get angry when it happens, if Allah can stay calm when he is spoken bad about, that should be my goal too.

When it comes to sharia law i do think 8ts good to have moral guidelines from it, but i do not see a reason to kill someone who utter negative words about islam or muslims

Hmm...I'm a little confused what the point of earthly punishment is when eternal torment is assured.

I've heard an argument that this is to stop dangerous ideas spreading to innocents here on earth, and thus people won't be led from Allah.

But I think this is a somewhat modern and small-minded interpretation of things, personally, as I've alluded to before.

On questions of theism, you and I won't agree. But I'd humbly request you study the history of Islam, and the impact blasphemy laws in modern times have had. Look at cases like Shahbaz Bhatti and Salman Taseer. These are not disbelievers like me, nor did they seek to defame Allah. There is a very real problem where groupthink is not only encouraged, but in some cases demanded.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes i can learn from them, but in my understanding not in a spiritual sense.

Understanding others who are different should come from a spiritual sense. Spirituality is a lifestyle. It changes your interactions and relationships with others and in some abrahamic religions for the good of humanity rather than a single unit. So, it depends on the individual believer how he or she wants to see others who differ in their respective faiths.

I'd assume spirituality doesn't have that dichotomy. How is that beneficial to the believer to separate people based on their spiritual experiences and/or lack thereof?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes i understand you
But as long staff has not stopped my OP or my comments i can take it as I am still within RF rules.

Do you understand the differences between the two, though?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Hmm...I'm a little confused what the point of earthly punishment is when eternal torment is assured.

I've heard an argument that this is to stop dangerous ideas spreading to innocents here on earth, and thus people won't be led from Allah.

But I think this is a somewhat modern and small-minded interpretation of things, personally, as I've alluded to before.

On questions of theism, you and I won't agree. But I'd humbly request you study the history of Islam, and the impact blasphemy laws in modern times have had. Look at cases like Shahbaz Bhatti and Salman Taseer. These are not disbelievers like me, nor did they seek to defame Allah. There is a very real problem where groupthink is not only encouraged, but in some cases demanded.

I will look in to it.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Do you understand the differences between the two, though?

I know what prozelyting is yes. And i know what it is not. I can not see what part of discussion lead to prozelyting in this thread.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I will look in to it.

Thanks!! That honestly makes me happy.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Thanks!! That honestly makes me happy.

Glad i could make you happy

 

[Spirit of Light]

Thanks!! That honestly makes me happy.

Looking in to the case you asked me to do, i would of vourse say the killing of that political person was not done by someone who understand Islam in my view. In my understanding it can never be a muslims duty to kill an other human being,

Personally i do not support the death penalty either, so this form of use of the sharia law is to me not right at all.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Looking in to the case you asked me to do, i would of vourse say the killing of that political person was not done by someone who understand Islam in my view. In my understanding it can never be a muslims duty to kill an other human being,

Personally i do not support the death penalty either, so this form of use of the sharia law is to me not right at all.

To me, it's more a symptom of binary thinking. A belief in one truth, and that a person holds that truth.

It promotes a lack of humbleness, and confuses God with man.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Do you expext a god someone do not believe in would love that person as much as one who dedicate his/her life to the God?
If a non believer dont care a Didly squat about God do that person expect to be taken in to Gods heaven?

Does Islam theology believe god is unconditional love as they do in christianity?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Does Islam theology believe god is unconditional love as they do in christianity?

This is the very opening of the Qur'an so i would say yes to your question

In the name of God, the Gracious, the Merciful. 2. Praise be to God, Lord of the Worlds. 3. The Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. 4. Master of the Day of Judgment. 5. It is You we worship, and upon You we call for help. 6. Guide us to the straight path.

 

[Revoltingest]

At the moment i am sitting down studying the teaching in the Qur'an and i read this .

176. And do not be saddened by those who rush into disbelief. They will not harm God in the least. God desires to give them no share in the Hereafter. A terrible torment awaits them.
177. Those who exchange blasphemy for faith will not harm God in the least. A painful torment awaits them.
178. Those who disbelieve should not assume that We respite them for their own good. We only respite them so that they may increase in sinfulness. A humiliating torment awaits them.
179. God will not leave the believers as you are, without distinguishing the wicked from the sincere. Nor will God inform you of the future, but God elects from among His messengers whom He wills. So believe in God and His messengers. If you believe and practice piety, you will have a splendid reward.

This 4 verses in the Qur'an made me realize that no mocking or blasphemy speech should even affect my own faith and beliefs in Allah. No evil words can harm Allah, so why shuld i even try to fight back?
No need to use energy on those who do not understand or who want nothing to do with religions.

Only focus on how to better one self as a faithful believer

What is your understanding of this 4 verses?

Good for you!
To rise above anger at critics is useful.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

This is the very opening of the Qur'an so i would say yes to your question

In the name of God, the Gracious, the Merciful. 2. Praise be to God, Lord of the Worlds. 3. The Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. 4. Master of the Day of Judgment. 5. It is You we worship, and upon You we call for help. 6. Guide us to the straight path.

These are for believers?

Does it say unconditional love for people who don't believe?

Unconditional love, by definition, has no division. It's not conditioned.

 

[Spirit of Light]

These are for believers?

Does it say unconditional love for people who don't believe?

Unconditional love, by definition, has no division. It's not conditioned.

I do not think the word unconditional was used in the Quran no, but the meaning of the teaching is to love or care for everyone.
To disagree is one thing but accept that not all human beings is like our self is just as important.

 

[firedragon]

Hmm...I'm a little confused what the point of earthly punishment is when eternal torment is assured.

I've heard an argument that this is to stop dangerous ideas spreading to innocents here on earth, and thus people won't be led from Allah.

But I think this is a somewhat modern and small-minded interpretation of things, personally, as I've alluded to before.

On questions of theism, you and I won't agree. But I'd humbly request you study the history of Islam, and the impact blasphemy laws in modern times have had. Look at cases like Shahbaz Bhatti and Salman Taseer. These are not disbelievers like me, nor did they seek to defame Allah. There is a very real problem where groupthink is not only encouraged, but in some cases demanded.

If you look at history, there are many histories we can select. History is not theology, and history is not scripture. Thus if you wish to look at history and death of people for blasphemy etc, rather than being selective against history of Muslims, why not take a holistic look and be fair? You know that William Tyndale was killed for simply translating a Bible? Many people have been killed for many reasons throughout history by so many ideologies.

Thats not scripture. So I think you have built a straw man against this thread. Its not a rare one, but still its not a fair one. You have worded your post courteously and I respect that. But your argument is a straw man.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I do not think the word unconditional was used in the Quran no, but the meaning of the teaching is to love or care for everyone.
To disagree is one thing but accept that not all human beings is like our self is just as important.

I will correct my self a bit with this answer

God loves humans but hates their sins

 

[Spirit of Light]

What truths?

ciao

- viole

That is your view of it, no problem for me.
To me those words in the Qur'an is the word of Allah

 

[Bear Wild]

At the moment i am sitting down studying the teaching in the Qur'an and i read this .

176. And do not be saddened by those who rush into disbelief. They will not harm God in the least. God desires to give them no share in the Hereafter. A terrible torment awaits them.
177. Those who exchange blasphemy for faith will not harm God in the least. A painful torment awaits them.
178. Those who disbelieve should not assume that We respite them for their own good. We only respite them so that they may increase in sinfulness. A humiliating torment awaits them.
179. God will not leave the believers as you are, without distinguishing the wicked from the sincere. Nor will God inform you of the future, but God elects from among His messengers whom He wills. So believe in God and His messengers. If you believe and practice piety, you will have a splendid reward.

This 4 verses in the Qur'an made me realize that no mocking or blasphemy speech should even affect my own faith and beliefs in Allah. No evil words can harm Allah, so why shuld i even try to fight back?
No need to use energy on those who do not understand or who want nothing to do with religions.

Only focus on how to better one self as a faithful believer

What is your understanding of this 4 verses?

I do not believe in or want to follow Allah. What do you think is going to happen to me. Your opinion.