Realizing that no mocking or blasphemy harms the believer in God

[firedragon]

Why do you assume I was mocking him? You barely know me. @Amanaki know me better than this. If he thought for a moment I was mocking him, I’m confident he would have called me on it

You said "ask him" as in to ask God which you know no one can do. Nevertheless, yeah I understand. If my friend tells me "only God knows" I may tell him "go ask him" so if you know Amanaki very well, it is not my place to tell you what not to do. Peace.

 

[shivsomashekhar]

I have no ill intention toward non believers.
My hope with an OP like this is not to scare people away, but to show them that without a God to help us in to what ever comes after this life, the terrible feeling of seeing someone go toward suffering and tormenting is not something i want for anyone.
So my posts are more a tiny wakeup call to say what could happen to wicced people ( no not all non believers mock or are wicced)

In short, non- believers (in Allah) will be tormented after death and you are trying to convince people to avoid such torment by believing in Allah.

This is text book proselytization and nothing more. It is the same “my way is the only way” thinking that goes against the ideas of peace and co-existence that you talked about earlier.

My view is your posts indicate that you have a hard time accepting that people can be rational and non-believers. The concept of non-believers irks you and your posts are bringing this sentiment out consistently.

 

[viole]

At the moment i am sitting down studying the teaching in the Qur'an and i read this .

176. And do not be saddened by those who rush into disbelief. They will not harm God in the least. God desires to give them no share in the Hereafter. A terrible torment awaits them.
177. Those who exchange blasphemy for faith will not harm God in the least. A painful torment awaits them.
178. Those who disbelieve should not assume that We respite them for their own good. We only respite them so that they may increase in sinfulness. A humiliating torment awaits them.
179. God will not leave the believers as you are, without distinguishing the wicked from the sincere. Nor will God inform you of the future, but God elects from among His messengers whom He wills. So believe in God and His messengers. If you believe and practice piety, you will have a splendid reward.

This 4 verses in the Qur'an made me realize that no mocking or blasphemy speech should even affect my own faith and beliefs in Allah. No evil words can harm Allah, so why shuld i even try to fight back?
No need to use energy on those who do not understand or who want nothing to do with religions.

Only focus on how to better one self as a faithful believer

What is your understanding of this 4 verses?

I suppose that reading those verses is painful torment already.

ciao

- viole

 

[Spirit of Light]

Brother. By "ask him" you were mocking this guy. I think its better resort to more meaningful discussion.

Anyway, your question was valid. You asked if Sin is Karma. No. Sin is not Karma. If you speak of the Buddhist philosophy there is Karma and Vipaka. Vipaka being the "consequences" of "Karma". Vipaka is the ripening of the fruit. The stage of ripening.

Karma is not sin. Karma is the cause (to put it simply) of the consequence. There are three Karmas in the Thripitaka. 1) Virtuous actions that produce the physical form and happiness and are the basis of the higher realms; 2) un-virtuous actions that create the physical form and suffering and are the basis of the lower realms; and 3) undetermined actions that create neither of these two.

So Karma is not Sin. You can say that sin is one of the three and infer it to point 2 above.

Does suffering come from sin? Was that your other question? Well, not particularly. This is the study of theodicy.

Thank you for clearify this to me too, i am learning something every day

 

[Spirit of Light]

In short, non- believers (in Allah) will be tormented after death and you are trying to convince people to avoid such torment by believing in Allah.

This is text book proselytization and nothing more. It is the same “my way is the only way” thinking that goes against the ideas of peace and co-existence that you talked about earlier.

My view is your posts indicate that you have a hard time accepting that people can be rational and non-believers. The concept of non-believers irks you and your posts are bringing this sentiment out consistently.

So in your understanding to speak about non believers and wishing them to realize a spiritual truth is not something i should do in religious forums?
The thread is about a realization of acfew verse in the Quran.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I suppose that reading those verses is painful torment already.

ciao

- viole

Not to me, but to others it may be when they realize the truth behind those words.

 

[SalixIncendium]

You said "ask him" as in to ask God which you know no one can do.

I really don’t know this. In my experience, can be attained in all sorts of ways.

 

[shivsomashekhar]

So in your understanding to speak about non believers and wishing them to realize a spiritual truth is not something i should do in religious forums?
The thread is about a realization of acfew verse in the Quran.

1. That is not what you are doing. You are playing the torment card - essentially declaring that people have no choice but to accept Allah. If not, dire consequences await them. There are multiple options, but humans are to reject all of them, except for Allah. How would anyone consider this a “spiritual truth”?

2. Your coercive statements hold true not just for atheists but for people who belong to other religions too. The Hindus have to give up their religion and convert to Islam or else they will be tormented after death - just like the atheists. The same applies to Buddhists, Jews and Christians. How many of them will call this coercion as “spiritual truth”?

Allah is declaring that he will torment all non- Muslims. Not just the atheists. The distinction is huge.

 

[firedragon]

I really don’t know this. In my experience, can be attained in all sorts of ways.

I asked God yesterday. He told me to go ahead and eat that fried beef and broccoli. So Im gonna do it in a bit. This diet is murder.

Cheers mate. Have a blast.

 

[Spirit of Light]

1. That is not what you are doing. You are playing the torment card - essentially declaring that people have no choice but to accept Allah. If not, dire consequences await them. There are multiple options, but humans are to reject all of them, except for Allah. How would anyone consider this a “spiritual truth”?

2. Your coercive statements hold true not just for atheists but for people who belong to other religions too. The Hindus have to give up their religion and convert to Islam or else they will be tormented after death - just like the atheists. The same applies to Buddhists, Jews and Christians. How many of them will call this coercion as “spiritual truth”?

Allah is declaring that he will torment all non- Muslims. Not just the atheists. The distinction is huge.

You are aware of that Allah means God in Arabic? I do not speak only about islam you know

 

[firedragon]

1. That is not what you are doing. You are playing the torment card - essentially declaring that people have no choice but to accept Allah. If not, dire consequences await them. There are multiple options, but humans are to reject all of them, except for Allah. How would anyone consider this a “spiritual truth”?

2. Your coercive statements hold true not just for atheists but for people who belong to other religions too. The Hindus have to give up their religion and convert to Islam or else they will be tormented after death - just like the atheists. The same applies to Buddhists, Jews and Christians. How many of them will call this coercion as “spiritual truth”?

Allah is declaring that he will torment all non- Muslims. Not just the atheists. The distinction is huge.

I would say that's a lie.

 

[SalixIncendium]

1. That is not what you are doing. You are playing the torment card - essentially declaring that people have no choice but to accept Allah. If not, dire consequences await them. There are multiple options, but humans are to reject all of them, except for Allah. How would anyone consider this a “spiritual truth”?

2. Your coercive statements hold true not just for atheists but for people who belong to other religions too. The Hindus have to give up their religion and convert to Islam or else they will be tormented after death - just like the atheists. The same applies to Buddhists, Jews and Christians. How many of them will call this coercion as “spiritual truth”?

Allah is declaring that he will torment all non- Muslims. Not just the atheists. The distinction is huge.

Do you think Allah will torment you after death for being Hindu?

I don’t. Therefore, it’s not my truth and therefore not really relevant to me.

Islam is not the only religion out there that accepts a view that those that do not follow their truth will be tormented in Hell. Ever study Catholicism?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I have no ill intention toward non believers.
My hope with an OP like this is not to scare people away, but to show them that without a God to help us in to what ever comes after this life, the terrible feeling of seeing someone go toward suffering and tormenting is not something i want for anyone.
So my posts are more a tiny wakeup call to say what could happen to wicced people ( no not all non believers mock or are wicced)

Amanaki, but having no ill intention towards nonbelievers and empathy means you respect and are happy where people are without god. There would be no sadness that people are not finding god because empathy will let you know believers, nonbelievers, and so forth have found their paths and moral views and are deserving to have the same spiritual experience religious or not that you do.

"So my posts are more a tiny wakeup call to say what could happen to wicced people ( no not all non believers mock or are wicced"

How to say this. Can you have empathy for wicced people in that without god they still find spirituality or moral outlook that's more appropriate for them than the abrahamic god?

Can you learn something from these people?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

At the moment i am sitting down studying the teaching in the Qur'an and i read this .

176. And do not be saddened by those who rush into disbelief. They will not harm God in the least. God desires to give them no share in the Hereafter. A terrible torment awaits them.
177. Those who exchange blasphemy for faith will not harm God in the least. A painful torment awaits them.
178. Those who disbelieve should not assume that We respite them for their own good. We only respite them so that they may increase in sinfulness. A humiliating torment awaits them.
179. God will not leave the believers as you are, without distinguishing the wicked from the sincere. Nor will God inform you of the future, but God elects from among His messengers whom He wills. So believe in God and His messengers. If you believe and practice piety, you will have a splendid reward.

This 4 verses in the Qur'an made me realize that no mocking or blasphemy speech should even affect my own faith and beliefs in Allah. No evil words can harm Allah, so why shuld i even try to fight back?
No need to use energy on those who do not understand or who want nothing to do with religions.

Only focus on how to better one self as a faithful believer

What is your understanding of this 4 verses?

Are you still in favour of blasphemy and apostasy laws?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Amanaki, but having no ill intention towards nonbelievers and empathy means you respect and are happy where people are without god. There would be no sadness that people are not finding god because empathy will let you know believers, nonbelievers, and so forth have found their paths and moral views and are deserving to have the same spiritual experience religious or not that you do.

"So my posts are more a tiny wakeup call to say what could happen to wicced people ( no not all non believers mock or are wicced"

How to say this. Can you have empathy for wicced people in that without god they still find spirituality or moral outlook that's more appropriate for them than the abrahamic god?

Can you learn something from these people?

Yes i can learn from them, but in my understanding not in a spiritual sense.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

So in your understanding to speak about non believers and wishing them to realize a spiritual truth is not something i should do in religious forums?
The thread is about a realization of acfew verse in the Quran.

I hope that the thread isn't frozen, but by definition, this is proselytizing. While the intention is well meaning-we understand that you want to express the islamic belief and quran to others-at the same time if you're not empathetic and happy they have what's appropriate to their spiritual health and experience things as you religious, believer, nonbeliever, alike, then it's no longer empathy and thinking of others.

I kinda hope you can see the difference between the two?

 

[shivsomashekhar]

I would say that's a lie.

i would say you are being dishonest, but this is not a debate forum.

Do you think Allah will torment you after death for being Hindu?

I do not believe in Allah and therefore I am not threatened by the warning of torment. This is not about what I believe, but about the exclusive nature of Islam. There is *no* room for other Gods. Worshiping idols of Krishna and endorsing reincarnation is against Islam. This is not a matter of interpretation nor disputed by anyone. In the eyes of Islam, there is no difference between an atheist and an idolator.

Amanaki sees theists on one side and atheists on the other. I am pointing out to him that this is not Islam. It is Muslims on one side and everyone else on the other. In other words, the believer who worships Krishna and the non-believer both share the same fate.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Are you still in favour of blasphemy and apostasy laws?

As the OP indicate my view of blasphemy has changed since that time i wrote about it, i know what comment you refering to, and i can say that i still struggle to understand why someone want to use blasphemic words about religion, but i no longer see a reason to get angry when it happens, if Allah can stay calm when he is spoken bad about, that should be my goal too.

When it comes to sharia law i do think 8ts good to have moral guidelines from it, but i do not see a reason to kill someone who utter negative words about islam or muslims

 

[Spirit of Light]

I hope that the thread isn't frozen, but by definition, this is proselytizing. While the intention is well meaning-we understand that you want to express the islamic belief and quran to others-at the same time if you're not empathetic and happy they have what's appropriate to their spiritual health and experience things as you religious, believer, nonbeliever, alike, then it's no longer empathy and thinking of others.

I kinda hope you can see the difference between the two?

Yes i understand you
But as long staff has not stopped my OP or my comments i can take it as I am still within RF rules.

 

[firedragon]

Do you think Allah will torment you after death for being Hindu?

I don’t. Therefore, it’s not my truth and therefore not really relevant to me.

Islam is not the only religion out there that accepts a view that those that do not follow their truth will be tormented in Hell. Ever study Catholicism?

But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.- Luke 19:27.

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. - Mark 16:16