Realizing that no mocking or blasphemy harms the believer in God

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That is the message from Allah, not from me.

The decision to highlight this particular passage was entirely yours.

The message you gave of how you apply this passage to your life was entirely from you.

You could have said "my heart cries out for the suffering these non-believers will have to endure. I can't see how it's just, but my faith in God's goodness tells me that it must be just in some way I can't see. Still, I need to help them believe so they can avoid this fate."

Instead, you told us that what you took from the passage was this:

No need to use energy on those who do not understand or who want nothing to do with religions.

Only focus on how to better one self as a faithful believer

That's all you.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I am agreeing with Allah yes, and i have no intention of disrespecting non believers.
The OP is about my realization of what happens to those who on purpose go against God, either by ignorance or wiccedness

You were wondering what those verses meant to us. 'Was wondering about how translate those verses compared to what I (we) get from them.

 

[Spirit of Light]

The decision to highlight this particular passage was entirely yours.

The message you gave of how you apply this passage to your life was entirely from you.

You could have said "my heart cries out for the suffering these non-believers will have to endure. I can't see how it's just, but my faith in God's goodness tells me that it must be just in some way I can't see. Still, I need to help them believe so they can avoid this fate."

Instead, you told us that what you took from the passage was this:



That's all you.

Yes now you are qouting my words.
That does not mean i do not have empathy, the OP is one way to make others know what could happen to them if they refuse to hear the truth about religion ( not only islam by the way)
My wish would of course be that every human being would find their truth in a religion and its teaching. But i am well aware it will not be so.

 

[Native]

Did you misread the verse or are you being deliberately obtuse?

No. I just connected the three senses in the line:

Amanaki said: ↑
176. And do not be saddened by those who rush into disbelief. They will not harm God in the least. God desires to give them no share in the Hereafter. A terrible torment awaits them.

Why on Earth would God act like this if not harmed?

 

[Spirit of Light]

You were wondering what those verses meant to us. 'Was wondering about how translate those verses compared to what I (we) get from them.

And you gave your understanding and view of them, so yes you answered that too

 

[Spirit of Light]

No. I just connected the two senses in the line:

Amanaki said: ↑
176. And do not be saddened by those who rush into disbelief. They will not harm God in the least. God desires to give them no share in the Hereafter. A terrible torment awaits them.

Why on Earth would God act like this if not harmed?

To tell muslims that there is no need to "fight" back when riddiculed, to stay calm like Allah will do when mocced.

 

[SalixIncendium]

No. I just connected the two senses in the line:

Amanaki said: ↑
176. And do not be saddened by those who rush into disbelief. They will not harm God in the least. God desires to give them no share in the Hereafter. A terrible torment awaits them.

Why on Earth would God act like this if not harmed?

Do parents ground children to teach them or because the parents are harmed?

As I see it, it's a simple lesson in causality. One's actions carry consequences.

 

[Nimos]

No, i would not see you as crazy or in need of mental hospital, i would disagree with you, but i am not judging your views

But you are judging "me", the moment you disagree with a view, right?

Just to be sure, you disagree with me, that tormenting believers is wrong, but for God to torment non believers is fine... Now let's assume that we didn't have 100% rock solid proof of God existences . Then what is written in the Quran could just as well have been said by a human right, and in that case you would still consider it right?

 

[Aupmanyav]

If a person has knowledge of the teaching in the Quran, and understand the teaching, but keep mocking and say blasphemy about it, then yes in my understanding they will in some way be "judged" out from that knowledge. And those will feel it as suffering. Maybe that is what is called Hell?

It is not as simple as that. If anyone has erred, Allah will send him to eternal hell and hot oil will be poured on his head till his brain melts. That is what the Messenger of Allah (ṣallā -llāhu ʿalayhī wa-ʾālihī wa-sallam) said.
Like what @Native said: "A terrible torment awaits them."

 

[Spirit of Light]

But you are judging "me", the moment you disagree with a view, right?

Just to be sure, you disagree with me, that tormenting believers is wrong, but for God to torment non believers is fine... Now let's assume that we didn't have 100% rock solid proof of God existences . Then what is written in the Quran could just as well have been said by a human right, and in that case you would still consider it right?

I do not go up against Gods word or way of doing his things. I am in no way capable to go against God words.

 

[Spirit of Light]

It is not as simple as that. If anyone has erred, Allah will send him to eternal hell and hot oil will be poured on his head till his brain melts. That is what the Messenger of Allah (ṣallā -llāhu ʿalayhī wa-ʾālihī wa-sallam) said.

So we should not go against Allah

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I have empathy for all human beings, i know personally what it means to suffer, that i found a teaching that lead me away from suffering should be a good thing, right?

Amanaki , I know this sounds debative but you wanted our opinion. Wouldn't this be a strike contradiction between agreeing with god's mode of justice and having empathy for people?

You can have much empathy for people on earth, but if you don't have empathy for their eternal well-being (thereby disagreeing with god), then it wouldn't be empathy. Empathy is more you put yourself in the shoes of others and understand what they believe insofar you won't judge them (and agree to anyone who does-god included) and wish them a life in their religion or path as what's appropriate to them.

Tolerance may not be a better word. I'd say respect not empathy. You can respect someone eve though you agree with their choice for them to choose hell. But when said to others (as it was said to me once), you may not get respect in return. Empathy doesn't teach that.

Yes. I know this is debative but when I read your posts to others for example @Nimos (#24), from an outsider it presents to conclusions from A: you choose to believe (agree with god) that people will be tormented and are okay with it or B: Only see the good sides but ignore or are blind to the bad sides.

That, and I agree with Nimos. I know god and muslim gives you peace, but I wonder also, at what expense is that peace that you agree to god that people choose to punish themselves.

I'm sorry I can't say only positive things and you will agree and ignore or divert from the negative things I say. But all in all, I would hope anyone of any religion will see the "other side" of their religion and try not to justify it.

 

[Nimos]

I do not go up against Gods word or way of doing his things. I am in no way capable to go against God words.

Fair enough...

But im not asking God to make a judgement here, Im asking you as a fellow human to simply state your opinion, whether you do that or not, wouldn't affect the word of God anyway.

 

[Aupmanyav]

So we should not go against Allah

Or his messenger. That has terrible consequences. Many nations have suffered that, and many more will suffer (Charles Hebdo).

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No. I just connected the three senses in the line:

Amanaki said: ↑
176. And do not be saddened by those who rush into disbelief. They will not harm God in the least. God desires to give them no share in the Hereafter. A terrible torment awaits them.

Why on Earth would God act like this if not harmed?

I don't think there will be straight forward answers. Cognitive dissonance.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Amanaki , I know this sounds debative but you wanted our opinion. Wouldn't this be a strike contradiction between agreeing with god's mode of justice and having empathy for people?

You can have much empathy for people on earth, but if you don't have empathy for their eternal well-being (thereby disagreeing with god), then it wouldn't be empathy. Empathy is more you put yourself in the shoes of others and understand what they believe insofar you won't judge them (and agree to anyone who does-god included) and wish them a life in their religion or path as what's appropriate to them.

Tolerance may not be a better word. I'd say respect not empathy. You can respect someone eve though you agree with their choice for them to choose hell. But when said to others (as it was said to me once), you may not get respect in return. Empathy doesn't teach that.

Yes. I know this is debative but when I read your posts to others for example @Nimos (#24), from an outsider it presents to conclusions from A: you choose to believe (agree with god) that people will be tormented and are okay with it or B: Only see the good sides but ignore or are blind to the bad sides.

That, and I agree with Nimos. I know god and muslim gives you peace, but I wonder also, at what expense is that peace that you agree to god that people choose to punish themselves.

I'm sorry I can't say only positive things and you will agree and ignore or divert from the negative things I say. But all in all, I would hope anyone of any religion will see the "other side" of their religion and try not to justify it.

I am not justifying something negative, but the consequences for those who chose not to follow a religious teaching and become closer to God, tend to go the path of immorality, carelessness, ignorance, and those things will lead to suffering. But who am i to tell others what could be good for them.
My OP was about a realization about verses in the Quran. And yes i knew non believers would disagree and even start a bit of mocking. Andvyes i did ask for othets opinions.

I am glad i did ask for them.
I have no expectation of gaining anything from a discussion like this. But to hear what others think is good too.

That does not mean my own belief will change. To me The Qur'an has given me answers i was looking for. But maybe Islam is not for everyone

 

[Native]

What is amazing though is that God is so self centered that despite this, he still see a need to punish people that disbelief. Again to me, that is a childish God which is not worthy of any worship whatsoever.

Precisely so

 

[Spirit of Light]

Or his messenger. That has terrible consequences. Many nations have suffered that, and many more will suffer (Charles Hebdo).

You know, when the Muhammad drawings was brought up again in discussion here in RF, i was mad, i was really mad. But when i read those 4 verses today i realized there was no need to get mad, by getting mad i only hurt my self more.

So next time someone draw Muhammad or spit on Islam. I will stay silent. Because i am not angry at them anymore.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

(I read it all)

I am not justifying something negative, but the consequences for those who chose not to follow a religious teaching and become closer to God, tend to go the path of immorality, carelessness, ignorance, and those things will lead to suffering. But who am i to tell others what could be good for them.

I was wondering if you realized that this is negative thing and how one can be empathetic and agree with god on this at the same time.

Everyone has different meanings for empathy, love, peace, and respect. But I assume there is a common denominator. That, or maybe it is that you're obedient to god rather than choosing god?

I have no expectation of gaining anything from a discussion like this. But to hear what others think is good too.

I'm confused. The threads you create are actually very insightful and good, you seek peace and have it in the Muslim faith, but don't expect in gaining anything from the replies you receive (and, being honest, from the negative ones too)?

 

[SalixIncendium]

I don't think there will be straight forward answers. Cognitive dissonance.

I think the answer I gave was pretty straight forward.