Realizing that no mocking or blasphemy harms the believer in God

[Spirit of Light]

I'm not sure where @9-10ths_Penguin got "reassured" or "calmed" but he does bring up a good point.

Is it the Islamic view that people ignorant of such warning verses in the Quran and blaspheme as a result will suffer the same consequence of someone that is aware of said warning?

What is the fate of those ignorant of this "truth?"

In my understanding those who have not heard the teaching will not be tormented according to the teaching of Islam. I am not sure how they will be "judged"

If a person has knowledge of the teaching in the Quran, and understand the teaching, but keep mocking and say blasphemy about it, then yes in my understanding they will in some way be "judged" out from that knowledge. And those will feel it as suffering.
Maybe that is what is called Hell?

 

[Spirit of Light]

The Qur'an is correct in that God can never be harmed by His creatures. But God is our final end and eternal happiness. If we harden our hearts towards Him by sin (in this case blasphemy) we render ourselves more and more incapable of receiving His graces. If this hardness of heart persists until death we become incapable of standing in His presence. We are thereby banished from what we have forever spurned and this banishment is the punishment of Hell. To be cut off from God forever.

Every time a creature utters an insult against God he only furthers destroys his own capacity to enjoy the eternal love that God has promised him.

Thank you for this good explanation @Musing Bassist

 

[Spirit of Light]

Forgive me for my interpretation.
So those who choose a leisurely path to disbelief might escape any wrath? And why would they want harm on something they either don't believe in or just have doubts over? And notice the threat.
More threats. Just great as advertising a peaceful religion.
Ditto.
No bribes here then, or threats (as before). But not transparent to some perhaps.
As mentioned. Hardly surprising as to how we all seem to interpret things differently when one is either a supporter or not.

For those who are ignorant is only harming them selvs. You are your own judge. Knowing the truth but refuse to following it will leade the person to suffering, so if they know the truth maybe a good advice would be to follow it

 

[Nimos]

At the moment i am sitting down studying the teaching in the Qur'an and i read this .

176. And do not be saddened by those who rush into disbelief. They will not harm God in the least. God desires to give them no share in the Hereafter. A terrible torment awaits them.
177. Those who exchange blasphemy for faith will not harm God in the least. A painful torment awaits them.
178. Those who disbelieve should not assume that We respite them for their own good. We only respite them so that they may increase in sinfulness. A humiliating torment awaits them.
179. God will not leave the believers as you are, without distinguishing the wicked from the sincere. Nor will God inform you of the future, but God elects from among His messengers whom He wills. So believe in God and His messengers. If you believe and practice piety, you will have a splendid reward.

This 4 verses in the Qur'an made me realize that no mocking or blasphemy speech should even affect my own faith and beliefs in Allah. No evil words can harm Allah, so why shuld i even try to fight back?
No need to use energy on those who do not understand or who want nothing to do with religions.

Only focus on how to better one self as a faithful believer

What is your understanding of this 4 verses?

This is basically a standard religious "Join me or die" passage

God/The Quran promises people more than heaven itself if they follow him and those that question the "truth" will suffer more than they can imagine.

The reason you should fight back will probably be clear later, just like why should Muslim care if you drew Muhammad or not? Yet a huge portion do and get very upset.

I have to say, that i'm more surprised that you or people in general can read passages like these in their religious text and not make the first questions be "Is this morally right? is that really a God I would want to worship? Do I actually agree that non believers should be painfully tormented for doing so?"

You are correct that no mockery or blasphemy can hurt a God, if it could then that wouldn't be much of a God to begin with. What is amazing though is that God is so self centered that despite this, he still see a need to punish people that disbelief. Again to me, that is a childish God which is not worthy of any worship whatsoever.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I do not want that upon anyone, but realize this, when a God tell us that by ignoring or mocking those who wish to follow Gods teaching. The ignorant person also hear the same "warning" of what may happen to them if they chose to ignore the truth.

So it is not the religious person nor it is Gods fault when a disbeliever one day face retrubution for his or her sins. That lay fully upon the one who refuse to listen to the truth when it is told to them.

Non believers blame God for their own missary, but they brought it upon them selvs.

The lack of empathy in your post isn't helping to convince me that my initial opinion was wrong.

 

[Mock Turtle]

For those who are ignorant is only harming them selvs. You are your own judge. Knowing the truth but refuse to following it will leade the person to suffering, so if they know the truth maybe a good advice would be to follow it

Perhaps we see things differently when 'interpreting' the Qur'an.

(Anyway, bad monkey for being naughty and posting where one shouldn't )

 

[Spirit of Light]

This is basically a standard religious "Join me or die" passage

God/The Quran promises people more than heaven itself if they follow him and those that question the "truth" will suffer more than they can imagine.

The reason you should fight back will probably be clear later, just like why should Muslim care if you drew Muhammad or not? Yet a huge portion do and get very upset.

I have to say, that i'm more surprised that you or people in general can read passages like these in their religious text and not make the first questions be "Is this morally right? is that really a God I would want to worship? Do I actually agree that non believers should be painfully tormented for doing so?"

You are correct that no mockery or blasphemy can hurt a God, if it could then that wouldn't be much of a God to begin with. What is amazing though is that God is so self centered that despite this, he still see a need to punish people that disbelief. Again to me, that is a childish God which is not worth any worship whatsoever.

I speak only for my self here as a muslim, but i find the Qur'an to give me peace in mind, because it teach me to not raise my voice, not harm others, not to be disrespectfull to those of other religions.
So yes I am one of those who see the Qur'an as a path to peace, a path to peace from within each person who embraces the teaching.

 

[Spirit of Light]

The lack of empathy in your post isn't helping to convince me that my initial opinion was wrong.

I have empathy for all human beings, i know personally what it means to suffer, that i found a teaching that lead me away from suffering should be a good thing, right?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Perhaps we see things differently when 'interpreting' the Qu'ran. Ignorance can often come from going down a blind alley.

Yes we do see the Qur'an differently i see the good in it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

At the moment i am sitting down studying the teaching in the Qur'an and i read this .

176. And do not be saddened by those who rush into disbelief. They will not harm God in the least. God desires to give them no share in the Hereafter. A terrible torment awaits them.
177. Those who exchange blasphemy for faith will not harm God in the least. A painful torment awaits them.
178. Those who disbelieve should not assume that We respite them for their own good. We only respite them so that they may increase in sinfulness. A humiliating torment awaits them.
179. God will not leave the believers as you are, without distinguishing the wicked from the sincere. Nor will God inform you of the future, but God elects from among His messengers whom He wills. So believe in God and His messengers. If you believe and practice piety, you will have a splendid reward.

This 4 verses in the Qur'an made me realize that no mocking or blasphemy speech should even affect my own faith and beliefs in Allah. No evil words can harm Allah, so why shuld i even try to fight back?
No need to use energy on those who do not understand or who want nothing to do with religions.

Only focus on how to better one self as a faithful believer

What is your understanding of this 4 verses?

I'll be direct, it looks like it means those who believe will be with god and those who don't won't affect god because he is to great. Therefore, those who disrespect him will be punished or reprimanded.

176. And do not be saddened by those who rush into disbelief. They will not harm God in the least. God desires to give them no share in the Hereafter. A terrible torment awaits them.

For example, if god is love in Islam and believers receive that love, god favors them. If you are not with god (without love) you will be at a disadvantage. You can't have love and not love at the same time. So, if one translates it as abstract, it still means that person who is not Muslim (does not Practice in X way to gain god's favor) will be punished. It also seems like it's the person's choice to be tormented. Which means Allah set up an option he expects people to follow for the good one. Options shouldn't be coercive.

177. Those who exchange blasphemy for faith will not harm God in the least. A painful torment awaits them.
178. Those who disbelieve should not assume that We respite them for their own good. We only respite them so that they may increase in sinfulness. A humiliating torment awaits them.

It seems like those who don't believe in god will not only not have love (thereby be tormented), they will remain if not increase in their sinfulness. So, without Allah, sinfulness remains at the choice of the unbeliever.

179. God will not leave the believers as you are, without distinguishing the wicked from the sincere. Nor will God inform you of the future, but God elects from among His messengers whom He wills. So believe in God and His messengers.

"If you believe and practice piety, you will have a splendid reward."

This one doesn't have much context unless read as a whole. From one end it seems like god does not distinguish from wicked from sincere (thereby hopefully rewarding both unbeliever and believer). Then on the other hand those without god will increase in their sin and will be tormented.

If both unbeliever and believer are seen as the same of god, there'd be no need for torment for one side but love or reward for both. The idea that people chose their own punishment sounds like if people don't have god, they are automatically bad people according to god.

You can't love and not love someone at the same time. How does Islam reconcile this conflict?

As for messengers, from my understanding, messengers help believers know god and his edicts.

A while back I asked you about how you felt of this because Abrahamic religions have a reward/punishment point of view. I asked how do you reconcile that disbelievers will not benefit from god? I think you said you couldn't speak for other muslims but (I think) you felt that god loves all and eventually will be with god. (Or something of other. We didn't converse)

So, I wanted to ask you that question again...but hoping for a bit more context in what you believe in relationship with your beliefs.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I have empathy for all human beings, i know personally what it means to suffer, that i found a teaching that lead me away from suffering should be a good thing, right?

If you have empathy for all human beings, and if you know what it means to suffer yourself, why would you hold up a promise that other people will suffer - and I quote - "terrible torment," "painful torment," and "humiliating torment" as something to take solace in?

The passage you quoted reads like a revenge fantasy.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

In my understanding those who have not heard the teaching will not be tormented according to the teaching of Islam. I am not sure how they will be "judged"

If a person has knowledge of the teaching in the Quran, and understand the teaching, but keep mocking and say blasphemy about it, then yes in my understanding they will in some way be "judged" out from that knowledge. And those will feel it as suffering.
Maybe that is what is called Hell?

How do you translate tormented in the Quran?

The Quran from those verses seems very straight forward.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I'll be direct, it looks like it means those who believe will be with god and those who don't won't affect god because he is to great. Therefore, those who disrespect him will be punished or reprimanded.

176. And do not be saddened by those who rush into disbelief. They will not harm God in the least. God desires to give them no share in the Hereafter. A terrible torment awaits them.

For example, if god is love in Islam and believers receive that love, god favors them. If you are not with god (without love) you will be at a disadvantage. You can't have love and not love at the same time. So, if one translates it as abstract, it still means that person who is not Muslim (does not Practice in X way to gain god's favor) will be punished. It also seems like it's the person's choice to be tormented. Which means Allah set up an option he expects people to follow for the good one. Options shouldn't be coercive.

177. Those who exchange blasphemy for faith will not harm God in the least. A painful torment awaits them.
178. Those who disbelieve should not assume that We respite them for their own good. We only respite them so that they may increase in sinfulness. A humiliating torment awaits them.

It seems like those who don't believe in god will not only not have love (thereby be tormented), they will remain if not increase in their sinfulness. So, without Allah, sinfulness remains at the choice of the unbeliever.

179. God will not leave the believers as you are, without distinguishing the wicked from the sincere. Nor will God inform you of the future, but God elects from among His messengers whom He wills. So believe in God and His messengers.

"If you believe and practice piety, you will have a splendid reward."

This one doesn't have much context unless read as a whole. From one end it seems like god does not distinguish from wicked from sincere then on the other hand those without god will increase in their sin and will be tormented. If both unbeliever and believer are seen as the same of god, there'd be no need for torment for one side but love or reward for both.

As for messengers, from my understanding, messengers help believers know god and his edicts.

A while back I asked you about how you felt of this because Abrahamic religions have a reward/punishment point of view. I asked how do you reconcile that disbelievers will not benefit from god? I think you said you couldn't speak for other muslims but (I think) you felt that god loves all and eventually will be with god. (Or something of other. We didn't converse)

So, I wanted to ask you that question again...but hoping for a bit more context in what you believe in relationship with your beliefs.

@Unveiled Artist , i be happy to tell you that since you last time asked me about this i undertood more of the teaching, and from those 4 verses i added in the OP, it is clear to me that I as a human being has no right to tell others if they will or will not be saved. But the verses clearly state that only God can make those desisions from how each human being has lived.
No matter what my personal belief or understanding is . It is only God who know the answer to your question.
But yes i do believe that religion is the true path to happiness and love. I do not say everyone should become muslims you are free to choose what you believe or not.

As i said in the Op i did have a realization. Meaning my past answers in RF was incorrect or did not speak of the more correct answer.

 

[Spirit of Light]

If you have empathy for all human beings, and if you know what it means to suffer yourself, why would you hold up a promise that other people will suffer - and I quote - "terrible torment," "painful torment," and "humiliating torment" as something to take solace in?

The passage you quoted reads like a revenge fantasy.

That is the message from Allah, not from me.

 

[Nimos]

I speak only for my self here as a muslim, but i find the Qur'an to give me peace in mind, because it teach me to not raise my voice, not harm others, not to be disrespectfull to those of other religions.
So yes I am one of those who see the Qur'an as a path to peace, a path to peace from within each person who embraces the teaching.

I can understand that you personally get something out of it and it satisfy a need you have. But to me it still wouldn't change the fact about what this passage say. It's probably different from atheists to religious people, what concerns them.

But to me, and what person I consider myself to be, what values I appreciate here in life and how I view my fellow humans. A passage like this is so far from, what I value as a person, that I don't see how anyone can read this and think. "That seems reasonable and logic" and then look themself in the mirror afterwards.

It would be like me saying that "All believers ought to be painfully tormented and tortured for as long as humanly possible. But all those that support me, I will give houses and all the stuff they want." saying this as a human, people would think you ought to be thrown in a mental institute or something. But when God say it, people find joy or peace in it?... It is absolutely insanity in my eyes, how people can rationalize some of these things.

Would you consider it wrong if a person said what I did above and actively tried to convince other non believers of this being the right way to deal with believers?

 

[Spirit of Light]

How do you translate tormented in the Quran?

The Quran from those verses seems very straight forward.

My understanding of tormented is a form of Hell. Or a less aggressive word would be suffering.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@Unveiled Artist , i be happy to tell you that since you last time asked me about this i undertood more of the teaching, and from those 4 verses i added in the OP, it is clear to me that I as a human being has no right to tell others if they will or will not be saved. But the verses clearly state that only God can make those desisions from how each human being has lived.
No matter what my personal belief or understanding is . It is only God who know the answer to your question.
But yes i do believe that religion is the true path to happiness and love. I do not say everyone should become muslims you are free to choose what you believe or not.

As i said in the Op i did have a realization. Meaning my past answers in RF was incorrect or did not speak of the more correct answer.

Wouldn't your personal belief be god's views thereby whatever you say in the name of your religion would be what god would say?

That phrase makes it seem either you have different opinions than god or you agree with god but just express it in a way that it is not disrespectful to unbelievers?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

But the verses clearly state that only God can make those desisions from how each human being has lived.

Do you agree with god?

If not, why? If so, why so?

 

[Spirit of Light]

I can understand that you personally get something out of it and it satisfy a need you have. But to me it still wouldn't change the fact about what this passage say. It's probably different from atheists to religious people, what concerns them.

But to me, and what person I consider myself to be, what values I appreciate here in life and how I view my fellow humans. A passage like this is so far from, what I value as a person, that I don't see how anyone can read this and think. "That seems reasonable and logic" and then look themself in the mirror afterwards.

It would be like me saying that "All believers ought to be painfully tormented and tortured for as long as humanly possible. But all those that support me, I will give houses and all the stuff they want." saying this as a human, people would think you ought to be thrown in a mental institute or something. But when God say it, people find joy or peace in it?... It is absolutely insanity in my eyes, how people can rationalize some of these things.

Would you consider it wrong if a person said what I did above and actively tried to convince other non believers of this being the right way to deal with believers?

No, i would not see you as crazy or in need of mental hospital, i would disagree with you, but i am not judging your views

 

[Spirit of Light]

Wouldn't your personal belief be god's views thereby whatever you say in the name of your religion would be what god would say?

That phrase makes it seem either you have different opinions than god or you agree with god but just express it in a way that it is not disrespectful to unbelievers?

I am agreeing with Allah yes, and i have no intention of disrespecting non believers.
The OP is about my realization of what happens to those who on purpose go against God, either by ignorance or wiccedness