Reality is Real

[Heyo]

Reality is real and it is going to bite you in the behind eventually if you ignore it.

This may sound as if it belongs in the philosophy section but it has political applications.
In 2016 Scott Adams said that facts don't matter and repeated it in his 2017 book "Win Bigly: Persuasion in a World Where Facts Don't Matter":

"In 2015, Adams publicly predicted Trump's victory. Adams later cited his research into the field of persuasion as the basis for his claim. He wrote Win Bigly to analyze Trump's tactics and offer guidance to improve readers' communication skills.[2] He describes people who, like Trump, are skilled at convincing listeners as "master persuaders".[3] He posits that when debating an issue, facts are only important when they can impact at an emotional level.[4]"

We see now how that worked out. Another quote comes to mind: "Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices." - Voltair

Trump made his followers believe he won the election and now made them storm the Capitol.

And Trump is far from the only one and election results are far from the only issue. Global warming, income equality, the dangers of Covid19, vaccination; people lose touch with reality. They also defend it, many here on RF. Having "one's own reality" is an often used phrase. The dangers of "having one's own reality" are now clear.

The question is, how can we get people to accept reality, especially when it is unwanted, depressing, scary or boring?

 

[Samael_Khan]

The question is, how can we get people to accept reality, especially when it is unwanted, depressing, scary or boring?

People aren't prone to accepting reality, especially if it is depressing, scary and unwanted. I would go so far as to say that all of us have a warped view of reality because of our emotional states and our experiences. Hence why many people join religions, because of the hope it brings them. Humans are not rational creatures as a whole. That emotional element will almost always override any logic that is rumbling around in our brain.

By the way, Scott Adams is very right about when to use facts. The emotional argument is way more successful than the logical one, especially in cases like Covid and evolution, when people cannot examine the evidence for themselves but must have faith in professionals to convey the truth about a topic. The only way to counter your opponents, like Trump and his followers, in an effective way is to target them on an emotional level.

This is actually proven with regards to indoctrination and cults. You can throw all the facts at a cult member that you want, but that will only make them retreat into their own shell and defend their position more firmly. But, when we use the socratic method with the aim of making them reflect on emotional topics, such as how their decisions might affect children or their family, then we have a better chance of changing their minds. In fact, the goal shouldn't be how WE can get people to accept reality, but how we can guide them in the right direction so that THEY can get THEMSELVES to accept reality.

 

[exchemist]

Reality is real and it is going to bite you in the behind eventually if you ignore it.

This may sound as if it belongs in the philosophy section but it has political applications.
In 2016 Scott Adams said that facts don't matter and repeated it in his 2017 book "Win Bigly: Persuasion in a World Where Facts Don't Matter":

"In 2015, Adams publicly predicted Trump's victory. Adams later cited his research into the field of persuasion as the basis for his claim. He wrote Win Bigly to analyze Trump's tactics and offer guidance to improve readers' communication skills.[2] He describes people who, like Trump, are skilled at convincing listeners as "master persuaders".[3] He posits that when debating an issue, facts are only important when they can impact at an emotional level.[4]"

We see now how that worked out. Another quote comes to mind: "Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices." - Voltair

Trump made his followers believe he won the election and now made them storm the Capitol.

And Trump is far from the only one and election results are far from the only issue. Global warming, income equality, the dangers of Covid19, vaccination; people lose touch with reality. They also defend it, many here on RF. Having "one's own reality" is an often used phrase. The dangers of "having one's own reality" are now clear.

The question is, how can we get people to accept reality, especially when it is unwanted, depressing, scary or boring?

Not really a thought-out response, but for some reason, when reading your post, Marx's phrase "opium of the people" floated into my mind.

I wonder if it could be that people who feel in some way powerless: not in charge of their destiny, not in control of the circumstances they find themselves in, suffering loss of status and seeing disturbing change around them, are prone to resort to attractive myths, rather than being rigorous about distinguishing fact from fiction.

Modern political economics, which for decades has put faith in free markets alone to generate wealth and freedom for everyone, has evolved into a self-serving creed for the people at the top that justifies a neglect of the needs and aspirations of the people bumping along near the bottom. Even the political Left, in some countries, has become side-tracked by the identity politics of various minorities, at the expense of thinking about these "mainstream poor", as it were. (Transgender bathrooms rather than rust belt McJobs, if you like.)

And so they resort to the spinners of myths.

 

[Heyo]

Not really a thought-out response, but for some reason, when reading your post, Marx's phrase "opium of the people" floated into my mind.

I wonder if it could be that people who feel in some way powerless: not in charge of their destiny, not in control of the circumstances they find themselves in, suffering loss of status and seeing disturbing change around them, are prone to resort to attractive myths, rather than being rigorous about distinguishing fact from fiction.

There is some statistical evidence to that. Wealth and self government is co-related to lack of religiosity as is the "happiness index". But for loss of touch with realty there seems to other factors also. "Echo chambers" and "ideological bubbles" are more related to loss of (forced) social contact and use of (algorithm driven) social media.

Modern political economics, which for decades has put faith in free markets alone to generate wealth and freedom for everyone, has evolved into a self-serving creed for the people at the top that justifies a neglect of the needs and aspirations of the people bumping along near the bottom.

I think loss of reality is a direct consequence of the creed of the free market. When informed customers lead to the Nash equilibrium, it is important for the producers to keep the customers ignorant.

 

[exchemist]

There is some statistical evidence to that. Wealth and self government is co-related to lack of religiosity as is the "happiness index". But for loss of touch with realty there seems to other factors also. "Echo chambers" and "ideological bubbles" are more related to loss of (forced) social contact and use of (algorithm driven) social media.

I think loss of reality is a direct consequence of the creed of the free market. When informed customers lead to the Nash equilibrium, it is important for the producers to keep the customers ignorant.

I disagree with your final point. By what mechanism can producers keep customers ignorant, today? We live in a society with free and rapid exchange of information, in a way inconceivable even a generation ago. I do not see any of this as due to some malign intent by business to keep people ignorant. The lies don't come from business, but from populist polticians.

I think the dissatisfaction of these people is far more due to the mobility of jobs (e.g. skilled manufacturing jobs moving from the developed to the developing world) and people (migrants, blacks/Latin Americans moving into the neighbourhood). This new mobility puts more power in the hands of the employer, who can move production offshore if labour rates are too high etc, at the expense of the employee. So skilled manufacturing turns into stock picking in an Amazon warehouse, with cameras to monitor bathroom breaks. Employment statistics continue to show full employment, so government doesn't see a problem, but the pay, security, working conditions and prestige have all been diminished. And the poor terms and conditions of these jobs result in people moving in who are prepared to put up with this.

It's a failure of the American dream, by which each generation had the implicit promise of doing better than the previous one. That has stalled, even as the economy grows, while the plutocrats trouser a larger and larger proportion of the collective wealth generated, all in the name of a "trickle-down" effect that seems to be an illusion.

 

[Stevicus]

The question is, how can we get people to accept reality, especially when it is unwanted, depressing, scary or boring?

I think most people might look at "reality" based on what they see, hear, and feel first-hand in their own personal lives. They see what's around them in their own immediate vicinity - their friends, family, neighbors, co-workers, etc. They see their paychecks and how much they can buy with it. They deal with do-nothing clerks, wait on hold for 45 minutes to speak to someone who can't help them or will transfer them to someone else. They deal with intransigent, uncaring government bureaucrats. These are examples of the kind of "reality" people see and understand and deal with on a daily basis.

As far as what is presented to them by the government or media - that's just what they see on TV, hear on the radio, or read in the daily paper (not to mention social media and the internet). They're presented things which they have no first-hand knowledge of, so it's not really a part of the "real world" that they know and understand on a personal, daily basis.

There's also a conflict of values going on, along with conflicting perceptions of what America is and supposed to be. It's more of an abstraction than anything else, not actual concrete, material reality.

 

[Secret Chief]

 

[Secret Chief]

 

[Heyo]

1:58 "Look for ways to identify the person as part of your tribe and you as part of theirs."
Aren't we all of the RF tribe? Shouldn't we all get along?