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Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Feb 20, 2021.

  1. aketo

    aketo Active Member

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  2. aketo

    aketo Active Member

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    I was referring to different interpretations in the different abrahamic religions. They are not talking about the same god, clearly.
     
  3. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    I would say that the Old and New Testament are referring to the same God.
     
  4. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Yes, Zion was chosen by God - Psalms 48:2-3 but notice the reference at Hebrews 12:22 connecting Mount Zion to Heavenly Jerusalem.
    So, since Pentecost 'Jerusalem above ' is Now the seat of government - Galatians 4:26
    Thus, the New Jerusalem at Revelation 3:12 is Not earthly but heavenly Jerusalem, heavenly Jerusalem comes down Not God.
     
  5. aketo

    aketo Active Member

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    Perhaps. I cannot say much as I'm not too familiar with that.
     
  6. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    At Proverbs 15:3 it's God's eyes watching everywhere. Does Not mean He is Not in Heaven. Compare Psalms 11:4
    Psalms 113:5-6 God stoops down to look on 'both' heaven and earth - He takes note from a distance - Psalms 138:6
    Isaiah wrote God resides in the 'high' place - Isaiah 57:15
    Psalms 139:7 No escape from God's spirit
    Psalms 139:8 Kind of like today that scientists can example soil on Mars, Not by traveling there personally but transmitting back.
    From God's location He can keep things in sight - Hebrews 4:13 - sight from a fixed location - Deuteronomy 26:15
    Thus, there is No where on can go beyond God's view - Psalms 139:9-10.
    Notice where God is according to Hebrews 9:24.
    Acts of the Apostles 17:26-27 God is only a prayer away. Call to God in prayer - Psalms 145:18 Angels appear to God - Job 1:6; Job 2:1
    At Job 34:21 It speaks of God's eyes seeing (they can see from heaven). Job 31:4 God's eyes see everywhere - Proverbs 15:3
    God's eyes on everything - Jeremiah 16:17; 32:19; 1 Peter 3:12.
    So, No one can hide from God's eyes, God's sight - Jeremiah 23:34; Psalms 139:7; Proverbs 15:3; Amos 9:2; Hebrews 4:13
    That does Not mean God has to be here for Him to see.
     
  7. aketo

    aketo Active Member

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    You're absolutely right. But there are verses among the ones I mentioned where God explicitly says he occupies all of the heaven and earth. For that to be true, he has to be omnipresent. He is then obviously all-seeing too, like what you said.
     
  8. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Yes, 'all seeing' but from His heavenly home - 1 kings chapter 8
    Eye sight does Not have to mean a literal being on earth.
    We can Now see pictures from Mars but that does Not mean we have to be on Mars.
    Sorry, I can't make it more clear.
     
  9. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    Humans talking thinking speaking.

    Origin to self presence

    One question. What condition human owned was not present,?

    Theist. Design. Building. Machine.

    What condition records image and voice and transmits it not as image or voice from machine to machines,?

    Design. Human designer.

    How did image voice human owned get placed by large volume and image?

    Radio radiation mass communicators.

    Into heavens surrounding us everywhere.

    Who looks and sees?

    Humans do.

    Why uses instrument machines to look and see,?

    Humans do.

    Who records recording recorded?

    Humans do.

    What body is used?

    Huge large heavenly mass.

    A mass.
    A massing.....doing.

    Heavens addition evolution by gained mass

    Human Moses mutated ape life.

    Heavens spirit body returned amassed added into mass as cold spirit presence. Man life returned healed as man was man before he mutated.

    Why didn't Jesus science life sacrifice be as evil as Moses event. DNA left exited human life body by burning bush garden body?

    Ice never existed before.

    Did science cause condition ice melted bio life in wAter mass saved. Gas mass however was hotter sacrificed burning gone.

    Science copying science didn't get a Moses Moses copy cause. They got a Moses to Jesus life evaluated. Reason ice melted replaced water mass what was not occurring when Moses science event was theoried.

    Variation ice was mass present.
    Water mass existed afterwards instead of ice X mass.

    Outcome mutation.

    Variance ice melted saved life.

    Reason science is a proven liar today ice melting.
     
    #49 rational experiences, Feb 23, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
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  10. aketo

    aketo Active Member

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    I understand what you said. But I'm trying to point out what I've understood from verses such as these:

    Jeremiah 23:
    24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

    Psalm 139:
    7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

    It suggests that God is everywhere. Seems pretty clear to me. Other verses may contradict this as you've pointed out but that I have nothing to say about.
     
  11. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    A human man theist for science thinking.

    O God mass ended perfectly complete as God O earth.

    No heavens.

    O God the earth complete is just planet earth.

    Spirit for heavens inside O held energy mass that had ended. As God.

    God therefore is described as entity body that created heavens.

    From stone. No spatial string theory.

    O suns separate bodies doing what suns do.

    Exactly why it was taught.

    Nothing beyond God.

    Theist then says but I want nothing. Not God. As nothing is beyond God.

    Status what is bigger than God.

    Book writer said he heard his ancient dead brothers science satanic confess of Sion. Voice recorded speaking male. In God gas spirit recording.

    Statement hence it was burning.

    Fusion into fission.

    Stated our brother a satanist had sent life on God earth to hell.

    As you cannot actually time shift back to a sun mass. volcanic mass eruption plate collapse life was sent to God hell. Human science confession.

    Satanism in thesis is a gas cold converted into burning.

    Said only God owned sacrificed spirit burning gas.

    All information known before science after the ice age was re theoried and rebuilt. If men knew all life on God O earth was destroyed by science then how is science correct today?
     
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  12. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Notice the reference in Rev 3:12 and Rev 21 to the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven to earth, and notice that God and the Lamb are said to be in this New Jerusalem which comes down out of heaven and that this is the dwelling place for God and that He will be with them and be their God. God will dwell in the New Jerusalem forever on earth and no doubt it will take the place of the Old Jerusalem.

    Rev 21:1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.
     
  13. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    It cannot be more clear than 1Kings 8:27
    1Kings 8:26 And now, O God of Israel, please confirm what You promised to Your servant, my father David. 27 But will God indeed dwell upon the earth? Even heaven, the highest heaven, cannot contain You, much less this temple I have built.
    God is everywhere. He is so big that not even heaven is big enough for Him to fit in.
    Our Father who is in Heaven is true but He is also everywhere else.
    It may be hard for your leaders to understand how God can say He is in a certain place when He is everywhere, but it is like the Trinity, you don't need to understand it fully. It is a matter of believing what the Bible is teaching, not denying what they cannot understand.
    It's a bit like God knowing the future, that also is taught in the Bible.
    Why does the Watchtower deny these plain and obvious things that the Bible teaches?
     
  14. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    God does Not send himself according to Psalms 104:30 - www.jw.org
     
  15. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    2Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into His image with intensifying glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.…

    And since the NWT translates "Lord" as "Jehovah" as 2Cor 3:17,18 then even the JWs should acknowledge that Jehovah sends Jehovah.
    Maybe you could think of it as me sending my foot to kick a football. But that would not be a truly fitting description of the Spirit of Jehovah, who is sent to live with and in us and actually is alive and knows the mind of God and is and does other things that an 'it' does cannot be or do.
    John 14:15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
    John 4:10 Jesus answered, “If you knew the gift of God and who is asking you for a drink, you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
    1Cor 2:10 But God has revealed it to us by the Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
     
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