Reading the Psalms as an Atheist (rant)

[vijeno]

I'm currently in the process of learning the first 10 psalms by heart. In hebrew. As an atheist.

Yep, I'm that strange.

I only got to Ps 3 by now. (I browsed the rest.)

Anyway.

Even though I read some of them before, I simply had no idea of the true nature of those texts.

These texts reek of extreme victimhood, coupled with delusions of grandiosity and phantasies of violence. God has most obviously not given that group the ends of the world as their property. Not everyone is your enemy. Just people do not get rewarded. Children do not need to be crushed on rocks (yeah, I'm not at 137... yet.... if I ever get there, but still).

Don't get me wrong. I know the historical context. It is perfectly understandable, simply by being human, that these people created those texts. I have total empathy for them.

Of course, this is political propaganda. An attempt to boost the morale of one political group.

But, as part of a holy book? As part of a message of love, peace, maybe some progress? I'm sorry, but if you take it that way, there is just nothing there. Only destruction, false promises, and loathing. It's deplorable. There is nothing whatsoever uplifting there.

Ugh.

Had to get it out there. Yes, it's a rant, I know. Sorry.

 

[Kemosloby]

Another way to look at them is David prophesying. (See if you recognize any parts that seem like what Jesus went through on the cross.) If David is prophesying about children being stoned. Lets say he is looking into the future and sees children being stoned with stones. Then he describes how these people believe the children should be stoned with stones, and says the children must be stoned with stones. Later since the people do not read psalms right, mistakenly thinking David was encouraging people to stone children, follow the "instruction" and actually do stone them. Then later Jesus comes along and tries to tell them they were reading things wrong so they crucify him, fullfilling what David saw about Jesus too.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I simply had no idea of the true nature of those texts.

They are songs. Maybe the true nature of the texts is not what you say. These songs are intended for people who have decided to be peaceful. Have you dedicated your life to a pacifist path? If not then maybe you just cannot identify with the singers. Think about all the songs Johnny Cash has sung. Did he actually kill a man and go to Folsom Prison? No.

But, as part of a holy book? As part of a message of love, peace, maybe some progress?

Its not a written message to you. Its not intended to be printed and distributed to just anyone, and it is about peace no matter what you imagine. The nations do rage, and the singers are surrounded by enemies. Their feelings of regret and anger are real as is their determination not to follow feelings of revenge.

I hope that you are inspired by the psalms and not discouraged. I think you should take a second look.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

I agree with both replies. The OT's author seems to have no idea of what those songs meant. From my perspective the OT's message intentional or not is one of hate for Christianity veiled with mock shock. If the OT author(s) is really interested in biblical writings they should take a basic course in theology with emphasis on types of literary devices used by biblical authors. Or I would be willing to answer any questions about the subject. Just e-mail me.

; { >

 

[vijeno]

Ps 1

The sheer thought of the utter frustration of broken promises, through centuries upon centuries of unanswered prayers and devotion to the dark void way up high, is heartbreaking and sickening. I feel utter sadness for billions of people who desperately tried to apply the idea that god punishes the wicked and rewards the just, while they watched their children die horrible deaths, got dragged into concentration camps or simply never found any lasting happiness in their lives.

A million candles burning for the love that never came.

Of course, those in robes, armed with bibles, ominous latin chants, and scourges, had clever words to cover up the insanity: sin, free will, theodicee. If you can't convince them, confuse them. Like a politician waging a war to cover up his failures, the believer had to be declared the offender, so deity could remain irresponsible, and the money would still flow in.

All of that, just because we were unable to resist the temptation to project everything good into father, fatherhood into monarchy, and monarchy into heaven.

May all sentient beings be free from suffering.

 

[pearl]

But, as part of a holy book? As part of a message of love, peace, maybe some progress? I'm sorry, but if you take it that way, there is just nothing there. Only destruction, false promises, and loathing. It's deplorable. There is nothing whatsoever uplifting there.

The majority were composed originally precisely for liturgical worship.
There are Ps of praise, thanksgiving, royal and lament. As for Ps 1, it views life as activity, as choosing either the good or the bad. Each 'way' brings its inevitable consequences. The wise through their good actions will experience rootedness and life, and the wicked, the rootlessness and death.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

PARTIAL QUOTE>>>>

May all sentient beings be free from suffering.

By worshiping as they see fit. Pain and suffering is a result of living in a universe ruled by physical law, soon the earth will be changed via being transmuted then pain and death will be abolished. Until that 'time' pray for peace.
; { >

 

[vijeno]

Psalm 2: Delusions of Power from On High

This is where things get hilarious, in a dark and grim way.

We want to have power, just like the big players all around. We want to imagine our king as protected by divinity, just as they do. We want him to be a son of god, just like them.

But of course, our history clearly shows that all of this is not the case. As much as we would like to paint our past as grandiose, we were always a sidenote in the power balance, a pawn and a tool. As soon as we had an empire, we lost it because of our infighting.

But we still have our imagination! We still have religion! We still have the King of Kings, and even if he never really intervenes, we can act as if he did. If our kings failed, that doesn't have to mean that our god failed, so we can still have hope. We can make pretty songs about him, hymns to him, and who knows, if we just have enough faith, just bring enough sacrifices, just condemn, vilify and humiliate ourselves a little bit more for a little bit longer...

Who knows...

Oh, you kings and empires. Oh, you evil ones! You will all come to see our true greatness.

You will all kneel before us.

When I am all grown up, dad will punish you for hurting me.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

Psalm 2: Delusions of Power from On High

This is where things get hilarious, in a dark and grim way.

We want to have power, just like the big players all around. We want to imagine our king as protected by divinity, just as they do. We want him to be a son of god, just like them.

But of course, our history clearly shows that all of this is not the case. As much as we would like to paint our past as grandiose, we were always a sidenote in the power balance, a pawn and a tool. As soon as we had an empire, we lost it because of our infighting.

But we still have our imagination! We still have religion! We still have the King of Kings, and even if he never really intervenes, we can act as if he did. If our kings failed, that doesn't have to mean that our god failed, so we can still have hope. We can make pretty songs about him, hymns to him, and who knows, if we just have enough faith, just bring enough sacrifices, just condemn, vilify and humiliate ourselves a little bit more for a little bit longer...

Who knows...

Oh, you kings and empires. Oh, you evil ones! You will all come to see our true greatness.

You will all kneel before us.

When I am all grown up, dad will punish you for hurting me.

Spoken from ignorance, and not worth a reply.

; {>

 

[vijeno]

Psalm 3: Victimhood and Toothbashing

1.

מִזְמוֹר לְדָוִד: בְּבָרְחוֹ, מִפְּנֵי אַבְשָׁלוֹם בְּנוֹ


A psalm that I put into David's mouth, because it fits nicely with one of the many stories we tell about him that are completely made up.


2.

יְהוָה, מָה-רַבּוּ צָרָי; רַבִּים, קָמִים עָלָ


Oh how oppressed am I! Nobody understands me, while all the other people have no issues at all!


3.

רַבִּים, אֹמְרִים לְנַפְשִׁי: אֵין יְשׁוּעָתָה לּוֹ בֵאלֹהִים סֶלָ


Many have pointed out that my god didn't seem to do an awful lot for me, but I don't want to listen, selah.


4.

וְאַתָּה יְהוָה, מָגֵן בַּעֲדִי; כְּבוֹדִי, וּמֵרִים רֹאשִׁ


I rather choose to cling to my beliefs as if they were true.


5.

קוֹלִי, אֶל-יְהוָה אֶקְרָא; וַיַּעֲנֵנִי מֵהַר קָדְשׁוֹ סֶלָ


Not that I ever heard any voice from that damn mountain of his. But still, it doesn't hurt to pray and wait for an answer, does it?


6.

אֲנִי שָׁכַבְתִּי, וָאִישָׁנָה; הֱקִיצוֹתִי--כִּי יְהוָה יִסְמְכֵנִ


After all, I *did* wake up this morning, didn't I? Can't have been my body doing that all by itself due to its biology? Must be some celestial intervention that keeps me alive!


7.

לֹא-אִירָא, מֵרִבְבוֹת עָם-- אֲשֶׁר סָבִיב, שָׁתוּ עָלָ


Rather than try and look at my issues as they are, and try to deal with them realistically, it's much better to stick my head in the desert sand and hope for help coming from above.


8.

קוּמָה יְהוָה, הוֹשִׁיעֵנִי אֱלֹהַי-- כִּי-הִכִּיתָ אֶת-כָּל-אֹיְבַי לֶחִי
שִׁנֵּי רְשָׁעִים שִׁבַּרְתּ


Maybe, if I imagine a real good bloodbath, my imaginary friend will then be more eager to come and give it to those ******** like they deserve. After all, peace is for sissies and people who don't have imaginary friends who might beat up their foes for them.


9.

לַיהוָה הַיְשׁוּעָה; עַל-עַמְּךָ בִרְכָתֶךָ סֶּלָ


After the war is over, we can then thank the lord for all the bloodletting. Sela.

 

[pearl]

What do you expect from a 'song' of lament?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Had to get it out there. Yes, it's a rant, I know. Sorry.

I suspect that it's more ignorant mantra than honest rant.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

I suspect that it's more ignorant mantra than honest rant.

Agreed but maybe totally iggy, he might be fishing but hasn't a clue what bait to use~

; { >

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

>>>>>>>>>PARTIAL QUOTE>>>>>

Psalm 3: Victimhood and Toothbashing

<<<<<<<<<<<<<

To those who think Psalms are so evil and violent, so victimizing, (LWWP!) maybe gen Xers through Late Baby boomer forgot the content from the music they embraced from their youth. Post some Cannibal Corpse lyrics if you want to hear some real sick-oh crap.. : {>

 

[Ingledsva]

I agree with both replies. The OT's author seems to have no idea of what those songs meant. From my perspective the OT's message intentional or not is one of hate for Christianity veiled with mock shock. If the OT author(s) is really interested in biblical writings they should take a basic course in theology with emphasis on types of literary devices used by biblical authors. Or I would be willing to answer any questions about the subject. Just e-mail me.

; { >

How can Tanakh's intention be hate for Christians, when the Christian religion hadn't been invented yet, when it was put to scroll?

*

 

[RabbiO]

How can Tanakh's intention be hate for Christians, when the Christian religion hadn't been invented yet, when it was put to scroll?

*

I suspect that the poster meant to write OP rather than OT.

 

[whirlingmerc]

I think the first 8 Psalms set the tone for the rest of the book. It's sets the tone for the rest of the book and represents the
incarnation, opposition, rejection suffering and resection of Jesus

Psalms book 1: David's first book of Psalms

 

[Hawkins]

The Egyptians killed the children of the Jews at will simply for the purpose of population control. When God killed the firstborns of the Egyptians, the Jews saw this a a vengeance for their children. It's more like the feeling of "happy is the vengeance.

Psalm 137:8-9 (NIV2011)
8 Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is the one who repays you according to what you have done to us.
9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.

Similarly, the poem shows that the poet desires such a vengeance.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Interestingly, the New Testament doesn't shy away from the imprecatory Psalms and heavily quotes them. Even Jesus quoted from them but he said 'Father forgive them they do not know what they do'

A really good talk on the imprecatory Psalms is by John Piper here. Possibly the best I know on the subject 'Pour out your indignation on them' Pour Out Your Indignation Upon Them | Desiring God

 

[watrewks]

I can see what you're saying. Back in the Old Testament times the morality of the the people of God was very tribal in nature. In the New Testament you see that the morality changes more to something that expands to something universal and not to just the tribe. That's why you see all those things about destruction of one's enemies and such. But what do you mean about the psalms being political? Do you mean that they were created solely for the edification of the Israelites as a nation to gain power over people?

I don't think there is so much as nothing positive in the Psalms but as there is a lot of negative emotion there being expressed. There are Psalms that start out depressing and end up being joyfilled, then there are Psalms about wonder and awe at the beauty of creation and the grandiosity of God, and then there are Psalms that are about mercy as well. So I think there are positive things things in the psalms and it's not just all about negative emotions.

The common belief among scholars is that the Psalms were valued because it taught people how to pray. Prayer among the Judeo Christian community is considered a conversation with God and that entails honest expression of one's emotions. Lots of times people go to God because of some crisis. Another valuable thing that the psalms provide is that it's often relatable. All these joys, sufferings, amazement, fear correspond to how someone somewhere has felt. This is what makes them so popular. Given these things I don't think the psalms are solely political.