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Reading in the right order

Tumah

Veteran Member
Sorry, I disagree with that, can you show the scriptures?
I did. You claimed the words Jesus said can cause a change in heart. Yet it's because hearts weren't changed that the Christian Testament has to declare it because G-d blinded them or stuffed their hearts or whatever it was. His words didn't change the hearts of the majority of people he met. So you can't really chalk up any change in a person to his words, it's just a question of how susceptible they are.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
Yet it's because hearts weren't changed that the Christian Testament has to declare it because G-d blinded them or stuffed their hearts or whatever it was.
You mean stuff like....

1 Corinthians 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 1:18-19 The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God. As the Scriptures say, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.”

1 Corinthians 1:23 but we preach about a crucified Christ, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4 If the Good News we preach is hidden behind a veil, it is hidden only from people who are perishing. Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.

John 12:39-40 This is why they could not believe: Isaiah also said, “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, so that they might not perceive with their eyes, and understand with their mind and turn, and I would heal them.”

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them. So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies. Then they will be condemned for enjoying evil rather than believing the truth.

Matthew 13:15-16 For the hearts of these people are hardened, and their ears cannot hear, and they have closed their eyes so their eyes cannot see, and their ears cannot hear, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and let me heal them. “But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear.

2 Corinthians 3:16 But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.


Disgusting that some even try quoting the Prophets as though they want anything to do with this mess.
 
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1213

Well-Known Member
I did. You claimed the words Jesus said can cause a change in heart. Yet it's because hearts weren't changed that the Christian Testament has to declare it because G-d blinded them or stuffed their hearts or whatever it was. His words didn't change the hearts of the majority of people he met.....

Yes, not all people want to accept it. I don’t see why that would be any problem, or revoke the idea that it can happen.

And that “stuffed their hearts”, I would really like to know what scripture you mean with that?
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
And that “stuffed their hearts”, I would really like to know what scripture you mean with that?
I just pointed most of them out. Tumah wasn't using a literal phrase. The Christian Testament repeatedly states that those who don't believe in Jesus are blind, not of the spirit, etc. If Jesus spoke to hearts (by which must also be inferred minds/souls) then how is it that he managed to miss so many? Seems like not all hearts and souls liked what he had to say, so your book writers made up reasons why that is, instead of accepting that Jesus totally failed to reach the Jewish people on any real level.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
...The Christian Testament repeatedly states that those who don't believe in Jesus are blind, not of the spirit, etc. If Jesus spoke to hearts (by which must also be inferred minds/souls) then how is it that he managed to miss so many?

People are "blind" when they don't want to see or hear. And people don't want to hear, if the message is not what they want to hear. So, people can also be blinded by telling the truth to them. Still, telling the truth is not wrong or bad.

… Jesus totally failed to reach the Jewish people on any real level.

If that would be true, we wouldn’t have Christianity, and we wouldn’t have the New Testament.

But, obviously it is true that not all want to accept the message Jesus had. And there is no Biblical reason to think it must have happened so.
 
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