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Featured Re: What use does an atheist have for deities?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by LuisDantas, May 24, 2019.

  1. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

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    I put no stock into anything you are trying to say about dreams, symbolism and religion. None.

    Your challenge is meaningless because it is easy to "interpret" any dream in just about any way.
     
  2. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    And just as useful. They do reveal a lot about what we value, fear and feel.
     
  3. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Everything we imagine is "grounded in reality", otherwise it would be incomprehensible. It's just not bound by reality. My dreams certainly aren't.
     
  4. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    It's sad that your bias has blinded you to any of the other possible ways of interpreting it. Most science fiction could be viewed as propaganda, as well. But most of us are able to see past that kind of narrow, constricting bias.
     
  5. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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  6. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    It appears dreams are triggered by events, maybe physical or mental. How the dream progresses may not make much sense as reality,
     
  7. Left Coast

    Left Coast Active Member
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    Although I don't believe in God anymore, I still happily attend my partner's very progressive, LGBT-friendly church. They apply the Bible through a predominantly moral and cultural/political lens that requires little to no supernaturalism. It's a refreshing perspective.
     
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  8. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

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    You just made a thought about a lord Xargoltus and you called it god.
     
  9. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

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    the unknown is the unknown. that's it. am i supposed to give the unknown attributes?
     
  10. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    So what you said about all gods being real was false? Or is it "all gods are real...except for those that aren't." (which would be a pointless statement)?
     
  11. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
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    When you dream, where does the content of your dream come from, other than from your unconscious mind? When you dream of another person, is that other person actually interacting with you, or is it a representation of that person created within your mind? It might seem like "other," especially if your conscious mind hasn't scripted the interaction, but is it really "other?" (Your unconscious mind may have scripted the interaction.)
     
  12. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    If "satan" serves as a symbolic figure rather than a literal one, then obviously they don't believe in satan as a supernatural entity. How was it not self explanatory? Are we playing "Jeopardy" where the question follows the answer? :facepalm:
     
  13. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    crossfire said:
    Is the cross a Christian ashtamangala?
    Ashtamangala - Wikipedia
    Cross is a symbol of terror/cruelty adopted by the Church.
    Cross should have not been used on the roof tops of the churches or worn in the neck by the peaceful Christians, of course one does not display the device (knife/dagger/sword) with which one’s loved one has been killed. It is most illogical and irrational to use this symbol for a religion. Is it necessary to continue the mistakes of the ancient people?

    The scene of Christian God Father cutting throat of Jesus or putting Jesus of Bible on the Cross for imaginary salvation or atonement of the sins of the Catholics Protestants is most cruel form of terror.
    I think it is for this that truthful Messenger Prophet Muhammad when he mentioned of Second Coming of Jesus, he also mentioned of rectification of this mistake of the Church continuing it without guidance from Jesus.

    Muhammad mentioned that when Jesus Second Coming will take place, Jesus will break the Cross. Of course this would be done by Jesus with rational and logical reasons. Jesus in his Second Coming would expose the tricks of the cunning Paul who invented the Theological Philosophy of Jesus’ death on Cross. Later Church fixed the Cross as the symbol of the Modern Christianity so Jesus in Second Coming will point out mistake of the Church and its false creeds, never sponsored by Jesus at all.

    This is my understanding of the symbol of "Cross".
    No intention to insult any people.

    Regards
     
  14. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    I am hardly a Christian, @paarsurrey , but I feel confident that for many or most Christians the cross has no terror conotations, but is rather a symbol of necessary sacrifice and transcendence.
     
  15. Firemorphic

    Firemorphic Activist Membrane

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    Idolatry is the worship of created things and using things as intermediaries (like statues) in worship.

    I do agree that anthropomorphic deities/images are powerful psychological tools, however it does posit a massive difference in the way we as Muslims view Ultimate Reality than the way Hindus view it. Hindus have built their religion around using maya against itself, treating deities/images/idols as the central form of spiritual expression; whereas we see it as distraction and misleading from worshiping Ultimate Reality.
    We share more in common with the various schools of Vedanta than mainstream Hindu traditions, in that sense (even though some Vedantists practice Bhakti Yoga).

    There's nothing that bad about deities/images in and of themselves (and I'm very fond of the Hindu and Greek pantheon if you didn't know already) but as a Muslim we are more likely to view deities/images as quite a silly and nonsensical form of spiritual expression, when approached seriously.
     
  16. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Thanks for the answer!
    Do you see Bhakti Yoga as approaching Islamic practice, or getting further away from it?

    I get the sense that you are told outright that it is wrong and perhaps dangerous.

    All the same, I still suspect that ultimately Muslims would not really have much trouble dealing with iconography and the like, and in that respect I don't think you are much unlike other people, either.

    For all the worry, I don't think that idolatry is very often a real problem or a real danger.
     
  17. wandering peacefully

    wandering peacefully Active Member

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    Are you going by some random survey or something? I have a whole lot of crazy dreams but none about deities or supernatural entities. I have had lucid dreams though. Those rock.
     
  18. Firemorphic

    Firemorphic Activist Membrane

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    Well, it's kinda like if you've (if you where a Hindu) soaked up the most profound bits of the Upanishads and truly come to realize and recognize Brahman (or Allah), then what use is there for idols/deities/images?
    I find it incredible that Hinduism via deep introspection of the Vedas, came to realize Ultimate Reality but I guess Hinduism's own interface is a kind of hyperactivity of images and colors is a central part of it's cultural identity making it a constant defining quality of Sanatan Dharma.

    As I alluded in another thread to you not to long ago, Bhakti Yoga could be a useful thing for you to contemplate to realize how or why one would devote themselves to Brahman (or Allah) but the comparison is limited through Bhakt Yoga's symbol and image-based nature. Basically what I'm saying is that you as an Atheist trying to understand Monotheism should first try to understand why Hindus worship Brahman through the guise of image and symbol first - before taking away any image or symbol for contemplating the value of Monotheism, which runs contrary to image and symbol in regards to Ultimate Reality (or Brahman/Allah).
    I take the view that when you pull the curtain back, Hindus are worshiping Brahman/Parabrahman and not any literal Vishnu/Shiva/Shakti/etc. Hinduism's mainstream traditions themselves have diverging opinions about that of course, respectively.

    There are varying views, of course none condone it but the way we think about it theologically and philosophically varies, on account of Muslims that do and don't understand their religion deeper than others.
     
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  19. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    Re: What use does an atheist have for deities?
    We sweep the floor with deities.
     
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  20. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    That is a very good reason for questioning whether Allah can rightfully be perceived as the same as Brahman, I think. The former fears being confused for - well, for most anything, apparently - while the later is beyond such concerns.

    But you did not answer my question.

    Bhakti is a difficult thing for me to understand. It is reasonably similar to the stereotypical Abrahamic practice, which is fairly common among Brazilian Christians. It is odd, in that it fit few people, but there is a cultural expectation that somehow all people "should" fit it.

    One of the main strengths of Hinduism is that it does not restrict itself to Bhakti.

    I sort of understand the appeal of Nirguna Brahma and its contrast to Siguna Brahma. It just isn't important to me, and I do not like to lend it undue significance. Nor do I want to encourage mistaking Allah for it.

    That is certainly true. Sometimes. Other times they are indeed worshipping some combination of Devas. Or none at all, as is the case with @Aupmanyav .

    On the other hand, one can't help but notice that Brahman is hardly ever "directly worshipped", if that even makes any sense.

    I have a strong hunch of why that is so. In a nutshell, Hindus tend to realize that there is no reason to fear forms.

    Indeed. Hinduism is wise.

    That is one view, I suppose. I for one think that it overcomplicates things.
     
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