Rapture & Tithing

[Kenny]

That of Hebrews 7 about Abraham, is in the old testament scriptures.
Therefore it's old testament scriptures and not the new testament scriptures.

No. Hebrews is NT and Hebrew 7 talks about the difference between the Old and the New.

Please note vs 8 And here men that die receive tithes; (OT) but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.(NT)

notice that there is only one person that we witness that "he liveth" and that is Jesus.

again
12 For the priesthood being changed, (NT - Jesus) but what didn't change was the faith of Abraham and the honoring of God with the tithe (which you are free not to honor God with it as His love for you isn't contingent on your response)

Further more what do you mean the tithe was before the law.
Abraham kept the law and commandments of God.
Genesis 26:5--"Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws"
Therefore Abraham kept the laws and commandments of God.
Therefore the law was there when Abraham gave the tithe.

Again, I don't agree. The Law is KNOWN as the Law of Moses.


Romans 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only (LAW OT), but who also walk in the steps of that faith ofour father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. (FAITH AND GRACE NT)

 

[Faithofchristian]

Some Christians believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. I do not.

Tithing isn't said as such in the NT, but it is a principle of giving--and we can get countless principles from the OT.

The only problem with the pre-tribulation rapture, is that Jesus Christ can not come before the tribulation, until the last Prophecy happens first in the book of Revelation, and at the time when the last Prophecy happens the tribulation is over anyway.
So what good is the pre- tribulation rapture going to do.

The tithe is not mentioned in the new testament scriptures, the principle of giving is man's teachings, from the old testament scriptures.

But then Christians will say, we Christians do not go by the old testament scriptures.
But yet these very same Christians tithe according to the old testament scriptures.

 

[Faithofchristian]

No. Hebrews is NT and Hebrew 7 talks about the difference between the Old and the New.

Please note vs 8 And here men that die receive tithes; (OT) but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.(NT)

notice that there is only one person that we witness that "he liveth" and that is Jesus.

again
12 For the priesthood being changed, (NT - Jesus) but what didn't change was the faith of Abraham and the honoring of God with the tithe (which you are free not to honor God with it as His love for you isn't contingent on your response)


Again, I don't agree. The Law is KNOWN as the Law of Moses.


Romans 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only (LAW OT), but who also walk in the steps of that faith ofour father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. (FAITH AND GRACE NT)

If you had read Hebrews 7:5--"And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham"

Notice ( to take tithes of the people)
This being Israel.
So the tithe is of Israel, As nothing was said about taking tithes of Christians.

Notice also ( sons of Levi) this being the
priest hood of Israel. Which has nothing to do with Christians.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Nope. It just hasn't got their attention yet. What grade are you in school BTW?

RF did contact me, saying they approved my thread

 

[David1967]

RF did contact me, saying they approved my thread

Ok, carry on. I can fix it with my trusty 'ignore' button.

 

[Kenny]

If you had read Hebrews 7:5--"And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham"

Notice ( to take tithes of the people)
This being Israel.
So the tithe is of Israel, As nothing was said about taking tithes of Christians.

Notice also ( sons of Levi) this being the
priest hood of Israel. Which has nothing to do with Christians.

Actually, no.

Levi paid tithes to Aaron (strictly Israel) - But Melchizedek is not from Israel - a different priesthood - and Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek the King of Salem or the King of Peace (Jesus)... which includes but is not limited to Israel.

So - no go -

 

[Kenny]

Where can I read that Jesus says they He come twice?

Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. KJV

11 Who said, Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing into heaven? This same Jesus, Who was caught away and lifted up from among you into heaven, will return in [just] the same way in which you saw Him go into heaven AMPLIFIED

John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

[metis]

Tithing was required under Jewish Law.

Also, under Jewish Law, the tithe was in part spent on social programs to help those in need whereas most societies today have government programs to do as such.

OTOH, if one wants to tithe, that's certainly not such a bad idea per the Parable of the Widow's Mite.

 

[David1967]

Actually, no.

Levi paid tithes to Aaron (strictly Israel) - But Melchizedek is not from Israel - a different priesthood - and Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek the King of Salem or the King of Peace (Jesus)... which includes but is not limited to Israel.

So - no go -

I wish there was more written about Melchizedek. Sounds like an interesting fellow. Was the Salem he was king of at the location of Jerusalem? Oh, and whatever happened to him and his kingdom?

 

[Faithofchristian]

Actually, no.

Levi paid tithes to Aaron (strictly Israel) - But Melchizedek is not from Israel - a different priesthood - and Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek the King of Salem or the King of Peace (Jesus)... which includes but is not limited to Israel.

So - no go -[/QUOT/]

The Levi's tithes were paid thru Abraham and not Aaron, Aaron was not even born at the time Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek of Salem.

 

[Kenny]

I wish there was more written about Melchizedek. Sounds like an interesting fellow. Was the Salem he was king of at the location of Jerusalem? Oh, and whatever happened to him and his kingdom?

Yes he is... information is not complete on Melchizedek.

Some say he was a manifestation of The Word (Who later became Jesus) as his titles are both King of Righteousness as well as King of Peace (King of Jerusalem) and thus Abraham was blessed by "the greater". They also believe that because in the NT it says he was without genealogy and thus there was no record of his beginning and there was no ending.

Some say he was Shem as the first King of Salem (Jerusalem), although there are those who hold that Jerusalem was started by the Jebusites about 3 generation from Canaan.

But little information is in scripture.

 

[Kenny]

The Levi's tithes were paid thru Abraham and not Aaron, Aaron was not even born at the time Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek of Salem.

1) you haven't addressed my points
2) My error, yes - Levi received tithes and it was in the loins of Abraham.
3) And Levi wasn't born either at the time of Abraham
4) My position still stands as you haven't really added anything to debunk it.

 

[David1967]

Yes he is... information is not complete on Melchizedek.

Some say he was a manifestation of The Word (Who later became Jesus) as his titles are both King of Righteousness as well as King of Peace (King of Jerusalem) and thus Abraham was blessed by "the greater". They also believe that because in the NT it says he was without genealogy and thus there was no record of his beginning and there was no ending.

Some say he was Shem as the first King of Salem (Jerusalem), although there are those who hold that Jerusalem was started by the Jebusites about 3 generation from Canaan.

But little information is in scripture.

Thanks, @KenS. I have heard the theory that he was a pre-manifestation of Christ too, but I think that's a stretch. But yeah, very interesting character.

 

[Kenny]

Thanks, @KenS. I have heard the theory that he was a pre-manifestation of Christ too, but I think that's a stretch. But yeah, very interesting character.

If he wasn't, he was a shadow of things to come as was so many other representations in the OT.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Wrong, Paul didn't meet Jesus.
Jesus talk to Paul from heaven.
Stopping Paul as Paul was on his way down the road to Damascus.
Acts 9:3 - 5.

As to how many people heard Jesus talking to Paul, there was only two other person's besides Paul. That heard Jesus speaking to Paul.

But when Jesus does return every eye will see Jesus. Revelation 1:7

Heaven is within talking distance? Never thought it was that close. ;0)

Either way it's contradictory with a very clear verse on the matter regardless.

Matthew 24:23.

 

[LightofTruth]

Where can I read that Jesus says they He come twice?

As I understand, his second coming is a twofold event. First comes the rapture, and then his raptured saints come with him to execute God's judgments.

It is necessary that the rapture happen before judgment because his saints are to come with Jesus.

When the door was opened in heaven, John saw the saints there, before the throne of God, when Jesus receives the sealed up book containing the judgments to take place on the earth.

 

[David1967]

If he wasn't, he was a shadow of things to come as was so many other representations in the OT.

"A shadow of things to come." I like that.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Heaven is within talking distance? Never thought it was that close. ;0)

Either way it's contradictory with a very clear verse on the matter regardless.

Matthew 24:23.

Well seeing that you have no idea what
Matthew 24:23 is about.

Matthew 24:23, Christ Jesus is speaking to his elect people during the tribulation that when people say here is Christ that we been waiting for. Believe it not, for there shall arise false Christ's and false prophets this will be during the tribulation of the
AntiChrist.
Which is not to far future from us.

The whole chapter of Matthew 24 is all about during the tribulation period.

So it's just you, taking things out of their context and trying imply them to something else.

 

[Faithofchristian]

1) you haven't addressed my points
2) My error, yes - Levi received tithes and it was in the loins of Abraham.
3) And Levi wasn't born either at the time of Abraham
4) My position still stands as you haven't really added anything to debunk it.

That's right the Levi priesthood wasn't born yet, but however the Levi priesthood tithes were paid by Abraham before the Levi priesthood came to be.

As Hebrews 7:9 plainly shows.
9--"And as I may so say, Levi also, who received tithes, payed tithes in Abraham"

Therefore the Levi priesthood tithes were paid by Abraham before the Levi priesthood came to be.

Which still shows all of this has nothing at all to do with Christians.
But has everything to do with Israel and the Levi priesthood.

 

[Faithofchristian]

No. Hebrews is NT and Hebrew 7 talks about the difference between the Old and the New.

Please note vs 8 And here men that die receive tithes; (OT) but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.(NT)

notice that there is only one person that we witness that "he liveth" and that is Jesus.

again
12 For the priesthood being changed, (NT - Jesus) but what didn't change was the faith of Abraham and the honoring of God with the tithe (which you are free not to honor God with it as His love for you isn't contingent on your response)


Again, I don't agree. The Law is KNOWN as the Law of Moses.


Romans 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only (LAW OT), but who also walk in the steps of that faith ofour father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. (FAITH AND GRACE NT)

Have you any idea what law that is being spoken about in Hebrews 7:12
12--"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law"

Have you any idea what law that is.
And why the law was changed, and what happened that the law was changed.

It's not the law of Moses either.