Rapists and free will?

[VoidCat]

It's okay. It happens.

I just think you misinterpreted the message. No harm done.

Rereading it for the 7th time I think. Around that time anyway.

 

[MyM]

Obviously a person who raped someone is choosing to do so.

Yet there are very few female rapists, or female Ted Bundys out there.

So, if Bundy had been born with a Vagina, I doubt he would have raped and murdered anyone, because statistics show that having a Vagina (instead of a penis), greatly decreases the likelihood of raping or murdering people (especially for the sexual gratification being the motive behind it).

So, with that in mind, how we exercise our free will, especially regarding rape, (and temptations to do so) depends largely on what is out of our control, our genitals, as well as the gender on your birth certificate!

So, if being born male greatly GREATLY increases your likelihood of being a rapist by Far, can we actually blame it on "free will"??

Also, for me, despite having sadistic fantasies of violently ravaging, owning, and controlling girls when I was a child, I never actually wanted to act them out. It was largely caused by being exposed to porn at age 8, because prior to that, it was NOT an issue.

But I have been in a youth prison for other offenses, and I had a cell-mate who raped and drowned a girl in the hungry horse river in Montana.

The kid had evil eyes, weird posture, weird sinister voice, and showed no signs of having a moral compass!

For many other criminals observed with those tendencies, I get the impression there is NOTHING they can do to help themselves!

They are severely troubled and disturbed, with chronic temptations to violate people sexually. Can we actually say, they are to blame for having those chronic urges??

As I said, were they born female, they probably wouldn't have them. (Actually, I am shocked with how many females I have heard say they have fantasies of being handcuffed, bound, gagged, and violently manhandled, strangled, raped, and beaten! . I have never known a man share such fantasies. Which is not healthy I'm assuming, but harmless, not the norm, and totally the opposite of what I'm talking about).

For me, I needed fantasies of aggression, controlling, dominating, and exercising ownership to get excited or off, destroy something beautiful I guess, watch a fire get out of control, but never actually wanted to have it manifest outside of fantasy.

And I don't even look at porn anymore, and haven't yanked one out in over three weeks Woot! WOOT! To keep purity of soul! (Sometimes if the tension builds though, the lesser of two evils is to yank one out if you are celibate!)

Obviously, for some individuals, they feel like they have to act such fantasies out in order to experience Heaven on earth , in the sense that it is their greatest joy, delight, and satisfaction!

For other men, it isn't even a temptation. People that do those acts are sick, warped, tortured individuals!

Are men with these inclinations, really at fault for being drawn (tempted, desires to ravage) to commit those acts??

EDIT:
Acting these desires out is the absolute most cowardly, terrible thing a man can do, but is he at fault for wanting to do so??

I don't think it's our genitals that can't be controlled. If the man rapes, he's using his brain and force and that is damaged or mentally sick. Serial rapists get the pleasure of not the just the sex part, but the thrill of being in control and using that over-powerment on the weak.

 

[VoidCat]

I think still that it's due mostly cuz culture. There could be other factors at play but that's the main thing. Also in regards to porn and the young...no. It shouldnt be shown to children that young. My grandfather used to watch porn in front of me and my siblings where we could see it. I lived with him up till I was 7. Might contrubite to my poor attitude towards sex tho I don't remember this much but barely. I was told it happened all the time by multiple family members that he did that.

 

[stvdv]

Are men with these inclinations, really at fault for being drawn (tempted, desires to ravage) to commit those acts??

YES:

Past is past
Future is uncertain
Present is Omni Present

Use the Present to create your own Future
Act Good creates a "good" Future
Act Bad creates a "bad" Future

 

[PureX]

Obviously a person who raped someone is choosing to do so.

Yet there are very few female rapists, or female Ted Bundys out there.

So, if Bundy had been born with a Vagina, I doubt he would have raped and murdered anyone, because statistics show that having a Vagina (instead of a penis), greatly decreases the likelihood of raping or murdering people (especially for the sexual gratification being the motive behind it).

So, with that in mind, how we exercise our free will, especially regarding rape, (and temptations to do so) depends largely on what is out of our control, our genitals, as well as the gender on your birth certificate!

This is an irrational application of the general to the specific. There are a lot of specific reasons why women commit such crimes less often than men do. But this does not mean that any or each specific woman is less likely to commit such a crime any more than it means each or any any specific man is more likely to commit such a crime. The generality holds only as a generality. And it's important to recognize this.

So, if being born male greatly GREATLY increases your likelihood of being a rapist by Far, can we actually blame it on "free will"??

Again, you are wrongly conflating the general with the specific. Being male does not increase any specific male's tendency to commit rape.

Also, for me, despite having sadistic fantasies of violently ravaging, owning, and controlling girls when I was a child, I never actually wanted to act them out. It was largely caused by being exposed to porn at age 8, because prior to that, it was NOT an issue.

But I have been in a youth prison for other offenses, and I had a cell-mate who raped and drowned a girl in the hungry horse river in Montana.

The kid had evil eyes, weird posture, weird sinister voice, and showed no signs of having a moral compass!

For many other criminals observed with those tendencies, I get the impression there is NOTHING they can do to help themselves!

They are severely troubled and disturbed, with chronic temptations to violate people sexually. Can we actually say, they are to blame for having those chronic urges??

It doesn't really matter, does it? We are all a combination of circumstance, reaction, and result. And once we recognize this process, we theoretically have the ability to change it if we so choose, moving forward. It's why the law doesn't allow ignorance t stand as an excuse.

 

[Spiderman]

Rereading it for the 7th time I think. Around that time anyway.

Wow!

I don't think I have ever started a thread someone read 7 times.

I hope it did not have a bad effect.

It is a disturbing topic, but I have often wondered if being a male makes one naturally more inclined to violence or rape.

So, thought I would ask.


Statistics certainly give the overwhelming evidence!

 

[Spiderman]

This is an irrational application of the general to the specific. There are a lot of specific reasons why women commit such crimes less often than men do. But this does not mean that any or each specific woman is less likely to commit such a crime any more than it means each or any any specific man is more likely to commit such a crime. The generality holds only as a generality. And it's important to recognize this.
Again, you are wrongly conflating the general with the specific. Being male does not increase any specific male's tendency to commit rape.
It doesn't really matter, does it? We are all a combination of circumstance, reaction, and result. And once we recognize this process, we theoretically have the ability to change it if we so choose, moving forward. It's why the law doesn't allow ignorance t stand as an excuse.

Men are far FAR, EXTREMELY more likely to rape than women! Overwhelming evidence backs that up based on how many convicted sex-offender males there are, compared to females.

I think it's obvious, certain harmful inclinations, are more likely to be in a person's desires, based on them being the gender that their birth certificate says they are!

 

[VoidCat]

Wow!

I don't think I have ever started a thread someone read 7 times.

I hope it did not have a bad effect.

It is a disturbing topic, but I have often wondered if being a male makes one naturally more inclined to violence or rape.

So, thought I would ask.


Statistics certainly give the overwhelming evidence!

Means it took me that many times to catch everything and make sure I understood what was wrote.

 

[PureX]

Men are far FAR, EXTREMELY more likely to rape than women! Overwhelming evidence backs that up based on how many convicted sex-offender males there are, compared to females.

Yes, but A MAN in not "men". So "Dave B." is no more likely to become violent than any other individual human being, male or female. It's important to understand this. You seem to be convicting all individual men based on a fact that only applies to men as a collective. But individuals are not reflective or responsible for the flaws of the collective.

 

[The Hammer]

Not all rapists are moral less heathens, with no capability for remorse or empathy.

Edit: As to the question. Most people that commit acts of sexual violence, were sexually abused first and are only perpetuating the cycle they know/are stuck in.

 

[VoidCat]

Not all rapists are moral less heathens, with no capability for remorse or empathy.

This is true. Many might just have a screwed up view on consent. Like some churches teach there's no such thing as martial rape.

 

[The Hammer]

This is true. Many might just have a screwed up view on consent. Like some churches teach there's no such thing as martial rape.

Or they are acting out violence that was committed on them.

 

[VoidCat]

Or they are acting out violence that was committed on them.

Also true. Which is why I've always been a proponent of rehabilatation over punitive action when it comes to crime.

 

[Kooky]

Edit: As to the question. Most people that commit acts of sexual violence, were sexually abused first and are only perpetuating the cycle they know/are stuck in.

Some are men in positions in power who fear no consequences.
Or they are young men who feel entitled to women's sexuality and don't (want to) understand consent.
Or they are abusers who need to feel powerful and are only satisfied when they can victimize somebody.

etc. etc. you get it. I don't think there are easy explanations, sexual coercion and sexual violence is prevalent enough in our society that I would be hesitant to pin it to a single reason.

 

[Ella S.]

If they have so little self-discipline, then they should voluntarily isolate themselves for the sake of the rest of society. In other words, if offending, they should turn themselves in. If non-offending, they should check into a mental hospital.

Unfortunately, it's true. Some of us have deeper and darker temptations than others. However, there are treatments. You just have to be committed to getting better and that is a personal choice.

Edit: Obviously, though, if acting on them isn't a risk or you can act on them in a safe, sane, and consensual manner, then it's not really a big deal, in my opinion. Plenty of masochists will volunteer to serve your fantasies as long as it stays safe, sane, and consensual, and there's nothing there for either of you to be ashamed about.

 

[The Hammer]

Some are men in positions in power, who feel entitled to women's bodies and fear no consequences.

And are these people who could also still have been abused or emotionally damaged in their youth, no?

IMO people abuse power to feel in control, which stems from an overall feeling of not having control (in it's vaguest of sense). These feelings of a lack of control often stem from trauma and abuse, not necessarily a lack of empathy or any innate sort of evil.

 

[Kooky]

And are these people who could also still have been abused or emotionally damaged in their youth, no?

IMO people abuse power to feel in control, which stems from an overall feeling of not having control (in it's vaguest of sense). These feelings of a lack of control often stem from trauma and abuse, not necessarily a lack of empathy or any innate sort of evil.

Maybe, maybe not. I haven't looked extensively into such cases, and don't even know if I would have enough information to reach an informed opinion on the matter.

What I can say with some certainty is that not everyone suffering from a feeling of loss of control is prone to victimize women, or arguably even directly victimize anybody at all, so I would argue that there have be other factors at play besides that.

 

[The Hammer]

What I can say with some certainty is that not everyone suffering from a feeling of loss of control is prone to victimize women, or arguably even directly victimize anybody at all, so I would argue that there have be other factors at play besides that.

Right, which is why it depends on where that stem is actually rooted, and not the feeling itself. What's causing it.

The stats show that roughly 30% of sex offenders were victims themselves. So no, it's not every case, but it's a factor in a large portion.

Edit: adding that the stat I found above is 23 years old. New studies range anywhere from 0-75% depending on the sample.

Sexual Abuse in the Childhood of Perpetrators | INSPQ

 

[VoidCat]

This is true. Many might just have a screwed up view on consent. Like some churches teach there's no such thing as martial rape.

Imma add onto this. Another example where someone doesn't understand consent:
A lot of guys don't realize constantly pressuring someone emotionally until they agree to sex is coercion.
I've seen comments on videos of activists who talked about that kind of thing where a few guys said they didn't know that and had done that and were going to stop trying to do that.

 

[The Hammer]

Imma add onto this. Another example where someone doesn't understand consent:
A lot of guys don't realize constantly pressuring someone emotionally until they agree to sex is coercion.
I've seen comments on videos of activists who talked about that kind of thing where a few guys said they didn't know that and had done that and were going to stop trying to do that.

There are a lot of misunderstandings of consent, which is why we need to be taught it starting at a young age.